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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5149684" data-attributes="member: 87792">I have never seen the problem.  Although what bards are has varied from edition to edition. In 2E, bards were Adventurers - wandering around picking up tricks from absolutely everyone as they went, and not discarding things that could save their lives later.  Which is why they mixed weapons, armour, thief skills, and magic.  It wasn't so much a class as a multiclass magic-user/fighter/thief using a sane experience point progression.  There was not a thing in the rules about singing unless you wanted there to be. In 3e, bards had a wide range.  And were the single most badass class going.  here are just some of the things that could be done extremely well by 3E (preferably 3.5) bards. 3E bards were Adventurers.  And they'd even managed to pick up some healing magic.  They'd also seen most traps before or thought of them and so could warn and advise (Inspire Courage/Competence) and spin fascinating tales. 3E bards were Loremasters.  They might not know as much about magic as wizards, but knew a bit about absolutely everything under the sun.  And could advise everyone how to do things and where the weak spots on all the monsters were. Bards were Skalds.  Long haired chainmail wearing viking warchanters who drove their allies into hightened frenzy. Bards were Swashbucklers.  Tumbling under or leaping on tables and as much dancing as fighting.  And utterly bamboozling the foe with tricks from up their sleeves. Bards were Con Men.  Confusing, bamboozling, and befuddling in a way rogues couldn't match.  And sometimes so keen on conning people into thinking they could do magic they thought it was all a con themselves. Bards were Spies.  Able to change shape and then with the ranks in bluff to carry the disguise off.   And to know how the foe thought.  For that matter, bards made great spymasters as well, already half-informed from Bardic Lore and able to bluff or read targets. Bards were Nobles.  Trained in everything and at high expense.  But when it comes to heavy lifting, your job is to convince others to do it for you. Bards were Mystics.  Rocking out to the primal chord that is the echo of the Big Bang.  Or the Music of the Spheres.  Or simply throwing a hard rock haleilujah that made the enemy's ear drums bleed. Bards were Enchanters.  No evocation, merely a specialism in mind affecting magic whether arcane or merely the ability to move an audience to tears through sheer skill. Bards were Officers.  Not the strongest person in the unit, but able to turn an otherwise mediocre team into a buzz-saw of doom (and a crack commando unit into something you might as well cut your own guards as face), or to take a group of untrained peasants and use them to throw back a marauding orc horde. Bards were Satirists.  Piss off a bard and he'd create a poem in your honour.  And the performance would attract a quarter of the town. Bards were Rabble Rousers.  Able to recruit an army of the disaffected and convince them to storm the vampire's castle with torches and pitch forks.  And do a damn good job when they did. Bards were Diplomats.  If you capture a bard, at the very least gag him! Otherwise he will just talk his way out of his cell and into command of your army. Bards were Performers.  Able to tell any joke well enough the target couldn't stop laughing.  Or to spellbind an entire audience. Bards were Battlefield Medics.  Not as good at healing as the cleric, but a damn sight better at getting to downed allies (tumble, jump, lighter armour).  And all able to pre-emptively heal at range from level 9. Indiana Jones was a down the line 3e Bard.  Right down to Whip Proficiency. And I've missed quite a few out. 4e Bards are most of that.  But they now need to defend their territory from Warlords, Charismadins, Warlocks, and others.</blockquote>

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