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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 6188291" data-attributes="member: 5038">To me powergaming and optimizing are two different things. As I have written in other threads, to me, powergaming is the player playing primarily for power or what they think is power as defined in the game.. For this definition with D&D, a player would be a power gamer if their primary focus for playing is on on cool powers, bonuses to hit and/or damage output, treasure acquisition (which grants items that increase power by giving bonuses or cool powers) and/or leveling (which gives you more power (bonuses and powers) and the ability to acquire more power (treasures and further level acquisition)).Since the above definition is based upon player focus/perception, optimization and min-maxing are not a necessary components of powergaming.Optimization, to me is on a separate axis. It is about prioritizing to best meet a concept. So as soon as one begins prioritizing ability scores, points, or whatever, they are engaging in some degree of optimization.  It is also on a continuum so there are different degrees of optimization.   When you start passing a subjective threshold and you are an optimizer.Many powergamers just also happen to engage in optimization.  Since powergaming is about focusing on power or the highest bonuses, they tend towards the extremes and try to squeeze the biggest bonuses.  This why optimizer and powergamer are, in my opinion associated with one another.Minmaxing  is an extreme form of optimizatioin in which the player tries to minimize weaknesses and maximize strengths. Treating things as dump stats or ignoring them, because the DM probably will not put the player in a situation to use it or the player can avoid  relevant situations and then using the resources elsewhere is an example of minmaxing in DND. In other games, putting everything into the biggest power or attack and using mental powers or clairvoyance while the character remains in a headquarters out of harms way would be minmaxing (and powergaming).Again, that is my take shared from my gaming circles over the years.</blockquote>

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