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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5947790" data-attributes="member: 87792">The 3.5 bard, even in core is &quot;worst caster&quot; - which still makes it better than all non-casters.&nbsp; Outside combat a bard can kick a rogue's ass at most things not involving locks or traps.&nbsp; They can outstealth the rogue (hide, move silently, and invisibility, silence, and sculpt sound).&nbsp; They can out-social the rogue (glibness is an extremely broken spell).&nbsp; They can out skill the rogue in general (work out how many skill points Bardic Lore is worth then get back to me).&nbsp; From level 9 they make extremely effective combat medics (Inspire Greatness from 30ft away ftw).&nbsp; They have both UMD and a spell list.&nbsp; They've some seriously good spells on their spell list - some of which no other class gets and some they don't get spontaneously (Silence rocks for countermagic, Alter Self, Hideous Laughter at level 1, glibness, sculpt sound)Now the 3.0 bard is a weak class.&nbsp; The 3.5 bard is just hard to use.&nbsp; And further underlines the point that 3.X is caster-centric.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5947790, member: 87792"] The 3.5 bard, even in core is "worst caster" - which still makes it better than all non-casters. Outside combat a bard can kick a rogue's ass at most things not involving locks or traps. They can outstealth the rogue (hide, move silently, [I]and[/I] invisibility, silence, and sculpt sound). They can out-social the rogue (glibness is an extremely broken spell). They can out skill the rogue in general (work out how many skill points Bardic Lore is worth then get back to me). From level 9 they make extremely effective combat medics (Inspire Greatness from 30ft away ftw). They have both UMD and a spell list. They've some seriously good spells on their spell list - some of which no other class gets and some they don't get spontaneously (Silence rocks for countermagic, Alter Self, Hideous Laughter at level 1, glibness, sculpt sound) Now the 3.0 bard is a weak class. The 3.5 bard is just hard to use. And further underlines the point that 3.X is caster-centric. [/QUOTE]

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