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[+] How do you make 5E more challenging?
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9315634" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>I'll start with direct responses and then give some more general thoughts.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I've found that if you do 2., there is no need for 1.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Another way to achieve this is to use points-buy but remove the stat bumps for species. One can also reduce the points spent, as you effectively do. In your example, you reduce it to 17! But one need not go quite that far.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I like this. Another approach is to stop giving HD with level progression, but that over-penalizes classes whose effective-feats (you can value classes in half-feats, as I (and others) have shown elsewhere) are invested in hit dice. Your approach seems better at first glance.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Player options will become pinched when they fail rolls more often and have fewer hit points (equating to lessened tempo). That does increase experienced difficulty, and it forces players to make correct choices (or die). Let's call this the accuracy and tempo axis of difficulty.</p><p></p><p>Another axis of difficulty is the complexity of decisions. A big meat-sack with a hard-hitting attack has low decision-complexity even if it is going to almost certainly defeat you. You'll die, but not in a very interesting way. Changing that to six foes, half of whom have say crossbows with Crossbow Expert feat, two of whom have Defense fighting style, splint and shield, and one of which is a caster, has far higher decision-complexity. It seems better to take out the caster first, but those crossbows will soon hurt. We should ignore the tanks, but what if they have a reasonable attack like polearms with Polearm Master? What if the caster is also a tank?</p><p></p><p>Base 5e is low difficulty in at least these two ways. Character hit points and success rates are good enough that players can make inaccurate decisions and still succeed. They enjoy an effective buffer against their mistakes. Many monsters are overly simplistic, and the encounter XP thresholds procedure over-costs larger groups of foes. Many of the most interesting and complex-decision forcing mechanics are reserved for player characters... making it fairly obvious that breaking that privilege offers opportunities to challenge players more.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 9315634, member: 71699"] I'll start with direct responses and then give some more general thoughts. I've found that if you do 2., there is no need for 1. Another way to achieve this is to use points-buy but remove the stat bumps for species. One can also reduce the points spent, as you effectively do. In your example, you reduce it to 17! But one need not go quite that far. I like this. Another approach is to stop giving HD with level progression, but that over-penalizes classes whose effective-feats (you can value classes in half-feats, as I (and others) have shown elsewhere) are invested in hit dice. Your approach seems better at first glance. Player options will become pinched when they fail rolls more often and have fewer hit points (equating to lessened tempo). That does increase experienced difficulty, and it forces players to make correct choices (or die). Let's call this the accuracy and tempo axis of difficulty. Another axis of difficulty is the complexity of decisions. A big meat-sack with a hard-hitting attack has low decision-complexity even if it is going to almost certainly defeat you. You'll die, but not in a very interesting way. Changing that to six foes, half of whom have say crossbows with Crossbow Expert feat, two of whom have Defense fighting style, splint and shield, and one of which is a caster, has far higher decision-complexity. It seems better to take out the caster first, but those crossbows will soon hurt. We should ignore the tanks, but what if they have a reasonable attack like polearms with Polearm Master? What if the caster is also a tank? Base 5e is low difficulty in at least these two ways. Character hit points and success rates are good enough that players can make inaccurate decisions and still succeed. They enjoy an effective buffer against their mistakes. Many monsters are overly simplistic, and the encounter XP thresholds procedure over-costs larger groups of foes. Many of the most interesting and complex-decision forcing mechanics are reserved for player characters... making it fairly obvious that breaking that privilege offers opportunities to challenge players more. [/QUOTE]
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[+] How do you make 5E more challenging?
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