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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Abraxus" data-source="post: 6299108" data-attributes="member: 6674769">Yes, I think everyone agrees with you...But that is still a completely different situation to the other one we are discussing which doesn't involve snap reflexes at all; which has been better expressed as "Mario" platforms.In situation "b" timing is crucial, but you don't have limited time and aren't being situationally forced into a snap reflex (unless something goes wrong).  Conversely, it involves watching a repeating pattern, waiting and timing exactly when to jump, and how far.  I don't even see why that needs to run off dexterity at all.So, sure, I would let characters approach it using Perform Acrobatics or Tumble (which are both about timing jumping and dodging with carefully measured finesse), but I would also let other characters take a "patience and timing check" using the Concentrate skill (trained or otherwise) - followed by a standard Jump.Its only when the character fails the roll that Reflex save kicks in, which in this instance (IMO) represents either noticing that your timing is out at the last split-second and managing to abort your jump - or grabbing the edge of the other platform in mid-air (DM's fiat here I guess)But using the reflex save "actively" here seems counter-intuitive to the rulesClerics are not priests - they are adventurers with a raft of different abilities, including quite physical ones like being able to use armor and carry a favoured weapon.  Wizards are not college professors because they can all fire crossbows and get better at fighting as they train.  They are adventurers who can do more than pray and cast spells out of a book.  Sorry if I am straw-manning here, but I think your approach to Concentrate is too limited.Concentrate is also a Monk skill and a Psion skill. I could see them dominating this situation in exactly the manner I explained, even if they didn't benefit from having a high dex and reflex save.  I'm totally fne with the wizard and the cleric slipping through on the same mechanic, because when all is said and done, they STILL have to pass the jump check at the end - which will be the real challenge for them.</blockquote>

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