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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Duelpersonality" data-source="post: 4239281" data-attributes="member: 64706">Well, if 4e doesn't have the trained and untrained skill usage that SWSE had, that will be my first house-rule.  Just having the ranks from 1/2 level does not a skillful character make.  I think the easiest thing to do might be to allow for more trained skills at 1st level than 4 + the standard class skills (e.g. Thievery and Stealth for rogues) for those classes that you want to be more skillful, though if you go this route you may want to break up some of the condensed skills to give those characters more options.  Also, restricting training in certain skills to certain classes might also achieve the same effect.I should have pointed out in my last post that if a character in that scenario had been trained in the Ride skill, they would have far and away outshone the other characters, and not just because of a +5 bonus to the skill checks.  To put it another way:  a warlord character and a wizard character are both 10th level and have a 20 Int, giving them both a +10 bonus to the Arcana skill.  The wizard, however, is also trained in Arcana, giving him a +15.  This is not the only difference in their abilities with the Arcana skill, though.  While they both may be able to tell you that the giant scaly fire-breathing monstrosity is a red dragon, the wizard can also tell you if it is vulnerable to cold or not, on top of being able to disable the magical runes around the entrance to its cave (as can the rogue, who's trained in Thievery) and know the specific ritual it's casting when the party breaks into it's inner lair.Also, if you go with a skill point system, be sure to watch out for which aspects of the skills are built in (like what was once the trapfinding class feature being a part of Thievery training) that might fit better as class features under that type of system.</blockquote>

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