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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tessarael" data-source="post: 1452081" data-attributes="member: 12909">Let's make this Rogue 4/Fighter 4/Wizard 6/Arcane Trickster 6 compared to Bard 20. Rogue and Wizard have good synergy, as Wizard has INT as primary ability. 20th level characters, so I'll assume 32 point buy. Bard needs CHA and DEX. R/F/W/AT needs INT and DEX. For simplicity, I'm assuming similar point buys.    Bard  R/F/W/ATSTR 12    12DEX 16    16CON 12    12INT 10    16WIS 10    10CHA 16    10I'm going to ignore where the ability boosts with level go. Let's assume it's not INT, otherwise the R/F/W/AT will have even better skills.HP for Bard: 6+19d6+20 = 92.5HP for R/F/W/AT: 6+3d6+4d10+12d4+20 = 88.5Fairly similar HP.BAB for Bard: +15BAB for R/F/W/AT: 3+4+3+3= +13A bit worse for the R/F/W/AT.Saves for Bard: Fort +6+1=+7Ref +12+3=+15Will +12Saves for R/F/W/AT: Fort +1+4+2+2+1 = +10Ref +4+1+2+5+3 = +15Will +1+1+5+5 = +12R/F/W/AT has better Fortitude save.Spellcasting for Bard: 6th level spellsSpellcasting for R/F/W/AT (12th): 6th level spellsFairly comparable, especially if the R/F/W/AT is a specialist.Skill points for Bard: 6*23 = 138Skill points for R/F/W/AT: (8+3)*7+(2+3)*(4+6)+(4+3)*6 = 169The R/F/W/AT has many more skill points.Feats for Bard: 7 at 20th if non-Human.Feats for R/F/W/AT: 7 at 20th if non-Human + 3 from Fighter + 1 from Wizard.R/F/W/AT spends feats on Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, closing the BAB gap, and with the 7d6 of Sneak Attack damage being a lot better in combat.The Bard does have Bardic Knowledge and Bardic music to make up for fewer feats and the lack of Sneak Attack. And the Bard can cast spells in light armor.At the end of the day, I would far prefer to play the R/F/W/AT. Armor (i.e. Bracers) is a bit more expensive than a Mithril Shirt, but the R/F/W/AT will be way better in melee, and has a more versatile set of spells - and more firepower with Evocation spells.An alternative build for the Bard is Rogue 3/Bard 7/Arcane Trickster 10, but that is not going to be as good a build for spellcasting.Just my thoughts ...</blockquote>

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