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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6661926" data-attributes="member: 6787650">So you weren't talking about dragons per se? Because my point is that a smart party builds in escape capabilities and may be able to disengage without deaths from almost any &quot;TPK encounter&quot;, simply because MM monsters are so slow. For instance, I hit &quot;Random&quot; on kobold.club for 4 20th level PCs and got a Glabrezu, Hezrou, and Green Slaad. The fastest of these is a Glabrezu at 40 feet. A 5th level party might not be able to kill these guys, but they could for sure run away from them! Either Longstrider or Expeditious Retreat would suffice, or even just caltrops. If the PCs can make it back to their horses (Move: 60) they'll be okay. They did bring horses, right? Even if not, once contact is broken the Glabrezu can't catch up unless it casts Fly, and then all they have to do is break its concentration once and the encounter is done.In fact, if the scout (Rogue/Monk) is doing his job, there's no need to break contact since the whole party never wandered into melee range of the Glabrezu in the first place.If you're just pointing out that the DM can still build encounters that PCs can't run away from, especially using dragons, then sure. PCs can't generally run away from Tiamat either. But &quot;you can always run away from Tiamat&quot; is no part of conventional wisdom so I'm not sure why you took the dig at conventional wisdom in the first place there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6661926, member: 6787650"] So you weren't talking about dragons per se? Because my point is that a smart party builds in escape capabilities and may be able to disengage without deaths from almost any "TPK encounter", simply because MM monsters are so slow. For instance, I hit "Random" on kobold.club for 4 20th level PCs and got a Glabrezu, Hezrou, and Green Slaad. The fastest of these is a Glabrezu at 40 feet. A 5th level party might not be able to kill these guys, but they could for sure run away from them! Either Longstrider or Expeditious Retreat would suffice, or even just caltrops. If the PCs can make it back to their horses (Move: 60) they'll be okay. They did bring horses, right? Even if not, once contact is broken the Glabrezu can't catch up unless it casts Fly, and then all they have to do is break its concentration once and the encounter is done. In fact, if the scout (Rogue/Monk) is doing his job, there's no need to break contact since the whole party never wandered into melee range of the Glabrezu in the first place. If you're just pointing out that the DM can still build encounters that PCs can't run away from, especially using dragons, then sure. PCs can't generally run away from Tiamat either. But "you can always run away from Tiamat" is no part of conventional wisdom so I'm not sure why you took the dig at conventional wisdom in the first place there. [/QUOTE]

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