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<blockquote data-quote="Imaculata" data-source="post: 8097768" data-attributes="member: 6801286"><p>I have to lean more towards Lanefan here. If you fail your search for a secret door, I don't think the outcome should be that you find it, most of the time. I get that success with consequences can be interesting (especially if it means setting off a trap), but with secret doors the most logical outcome of a failed search, would be that you are unable to find it. After all, you are searching for a hidden object and failing that search.</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]e1KKVy-nki8:109[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>Of course there can be exceptions. I'm thinking of the scene from Indiana Jones and the last crusade, where his father accidentally opens a secret door, causing Indy to tumble down a flight of stairs that is revealed. To me it is all a matter of, "What is at stake?".</p><p></p><p>When a player tries to jump across a pit, then they are trying to reach the other side without falling in. Those are the stakes, and failure means those are things that could go wrong.</p><p></p><p>When a player tries to find a trap, they are trying to locate it without setting it off. But if you don't know where it is, setting it off is very much within the scope of things that can go wrong.</p><p></p><p>When you are looking for a secret door, you are trying to find out how to trigger it, preferably without taking all day, and without making too much noise. So those three things are the stakes. A failed check means you either don't find it, or you take very long, or you draw unwanted attention, or some other setback that seems appropriate given the way the door is hidden. If all it takes is leaning in a chair to open the secret door, then it seems reasonable that it might be triggered even though you failed to find it. Most of the time though, not finding it at all seems like the most logical outcome to me.</p><p></p><p>But to sit in Iserith's chair for a moment (and not leaning back), that may not be the most fun way to move the narrative forward. Sometimes finding a thing by accident can make for a more enjoyable story progression. I try to make none of my secret doors too important, so that missing one does not halt the plot or the fun. I prefer that my secret doors retain some of their sense of mystery by not always being so easy to find.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaculata, post: 8097768, member: 6801286"] I have to lean more towards Lanefan here. If you fail your search for a secret door, I don't think the outcome should be that you find it, most of the time. I get that success with consequences can be interesting (especially if it means setting off a trap), but with secret doors the most logical outcome of a failed search, would be that you are unable to find it. After all, you are searching for a hidden object and failing that search. [MEDIA=youtube]e1KKVy-nki8:109[/MEDIA] Of course there can be exceptions. I'm thinking of the scene from Indiana Jones and the last crusade, where his father accidentally opens a secret door, causing Indy to tumble down a flight of stairs that is revealed. To me it is all a matter of, "What is at stake?". When a player tries to jump across a pit, then they are trying to reach the other side without falling in. Those are the stakes, and failure means those are things that could go wrong. When a player tries to find a trap, they are trying to locate it without setting it off. But if you don't know where it is, setting it off is very much within the scope of things that can go wrong. When you are looking for a secret door, you are trying to find out how to trigger it, preferably without taking all day, and without making too much noise. So those three things are the stakes. A failed check means you either don't find it, or you take very long, or you draw unwanted attention, or some other setback that seems appropriate given the way the door is hidden. If all it takes is leaning in a chair to open the secret door, then it seems reasonable that it might be triggered even though you failed to find it. Most of the time though, not finding it at all seems like the most logical outcome to me. But to sit in Iserith's chair for a moment (and not leaning back), that may not be the most fun way to move the narrative forward. Sometimes finding a thing by accident can make for a more enjoyable story progression. I try to make none of my secret doors too important, so that missing one does not halt the plot or the fun. I prefer that my secret doors retain some of their sense of mystery by not always being so easy to find. [/QUOTE]
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