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<blockquote data-quote="Baldurs_Underdark" data-source="post: 8477826" data-attributes="member: 6880355">Scenario: NPC sells weapons. He claims that his greatsword is of special quality (but the DM knows the guy is a liar), and wants to sell it to the PC at 5x the listed price in the PHB, even though in reality it's just an ordinary greatsword. The PCs are interested to buy a greatsword, especially if it has special properties (and let's assume they cannot check it for magic properties and aren't proficient in smith's tools). Now the NPC makes a deception check and rolls a natural 20, for a total of 27. Does that mean that the PC must now buy the sword at 5x the market price, even if the player behind the PC suspects that he's being deceived? I would consider that player &quot;forced&quot; to buy that sword.I think that the player should have freedom to refuse that sword at all times, no matter what the DM rolls. It's up to the DM to put up some decent roleplay. And in addition, the player can attempt to see through the lies with an Insight check. &nbsp;You're asking nice, so no offense taken. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I cannot force my players to go anywhere. I have multiple lists of random things: Random names for NPCs, random shops, pubs including price lists, random village names. And importantly, I accept that the players choose the mission. They may rewrite the entire plot as they stumble through the world.If the NPC rolls a very high persuasion check, shouldn't the player fall for that charismatic idea and follow along? If so, if the DM rolls high, the player is forced to roleplay.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Baldurs_Underdark, post: 8477826, member: 6880355"] Scenario: NPC sells weapons. He claims that his greatsword is of special quality (but the DM knows the guy is a liar), and wants to sell it to the PC at 5x the listed price in the PHB, even though in reality it's just an ordinary greatsword. The PCs are interested to buy a greatsword, especially if it has special properties (and let's assume they cannot check it for magic properties and aren't proficient in smith's tools). Now the NPC makes a deception check and rolls a natural 20, for a total of 27. Does that mean that the PC must now buy the sword at 5x the market price, even if the player behind the PC suspects that he's being deceived? I would consider that player "forced" to buy that sword. I think that the player should have freedom to refuse that sword at all times, no matter what the DM rolls. It's up to the DM to put up some decent roleplay. And in addition, the player can attempt to see through the lies with an Insight check. You're asking nice, so no offense taken. :) I cannot force my players to go anywhere. I have multiple lists of random things: Random names for NPCs, random shops, pubs including price lists, random village names. And importantly, I accept that the players choose the mission. They may rewrite the entire plot as they stumble through the world. If the NPC rolls a very high persuasion check, shouldn't the player fall for that charismatic idea and follow along? If so, if the DM rolls high, the player is forced to roleplay. [/QUOTE]

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