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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 588618" data-attributes="member: 151">Not to doubt you, but my experience has been different.  Have you actually played with both in practice?Summon Monster I will get you a Celestial Dog.  AC15, 6 hp, Smite for +1, SR 2 and Acid/cold/elec resistance 5.   A fiendish hawk has AC17, 4 hp, Claws at +5 for 1d4-2, Smite for +1, cold/fire resistance 5 and SR2.An Astral Construct I has AC14, 5 hp, 1d4+1 slam at +2, and has all the benefits of being a construct (i.e. spell immunities, not subject to criticals, etc.).  It then gets a benefit of one power from the A list, which can include a second attack (giving it two attacks at +0 for 1d4+1), flight at 60' (which matches the hawk) or a choice of one resistance at 5.I see no clear winner in that comparison.  Both 1st level versions are relatively weak, but they each have a specific strength or weakness.  However, the fiendish hawk might not be available, if the summoner is a cleric or a honorable arcane caster...the spell has the evil qualifier when used to summon an evil creature.  The Astral Construct suffers no such restriction.Let's look at Summon V, then.  Here, the summon spells get one clear advantage; a choice of numbers over power.  I've never really seen this as that big of an advantage (is summoning 1d3 lantern archons as good as summoning a single hound archon, for example), but it's worth mentioning.Some creatures seem out of synch with others on the list.  How often would anyone summon a Yeth Hound, for example, and is it really on the same level as a Fiendish Girallon?  Further, why are there only six Good choices out of a total of 25? A good cleric would presumably only have 10 choices, then.  Some choices are of extremely limited use, such as a Celestial Orca (anyone out there actually ever summoned one?  Anyone?  Anyone?).  Some are just plain weak, Let's compare a fiendish Girallon (shudder), an arrowhawk, a Celestial Bear and an Astral Construct 5.Ast. Const. V:  Large, AC 17, +2 Init, +13 Slam for 1d8+13, Spd 50', (7d10) 38 hp, Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +4 , 10' reach,  DR 5/+1, and 2 menu B options (or 4 menu A, or 1B and 2A).  So he could get +3d10 hp, +4 Deflection, add +HD to one attack, Improved Grab, Squeeze (for 2d4+Str Mod) and still has access to older goodies, like fly, sprint (10x normal speed!), swim or gain resistances.  Very flexible.  Remember it still has all those nifty construct resistances, too.Fiendish Girallon: Large, AC 16, +3 Init, +12 melee (x4) for 1d4+8 or bite at +7 for 1d8+4, (7d10) 52 hp, Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +3, 10' reach, has Scent and Rend (yikes!), speed 40'/climb 40', has SR 14, cold/fire 10, Darkvision 60', DR 5/+1 and smite Good for +7 1/day.  Arrowhawk, Medium: Medium size outsider (Air), AC 21, +5 Init, +12 Electric Ray to 45' at 2d8 or +12 bite at 1d8+2, (7d8) 38 hp, Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +6, 5' reach, has Fire/Cold Resist 20, Immunity to Acid, Electricity and Poison, speed 60' fly.Celestial Brown Bear: Large, AC 15, +1 Init, +11 claw for 1d8+8 and +6 bite for 2d8+4, (6d8) 51 hp, Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +3, 5' reach (!), has Improved Grab and Scent, speed 40', has SR 12, cold/acid/elec resistance 10, DR 5/+1, Smite Evil for +6, and Darkvision 60'.Again, I see no clear winner, here.  The girallon is a damage machine, to be sure, but it's really ONLY a damage machine.  The Celestial bear, too, has some nice gimmicks, but is even less efficient as a combat beastie.  Put a target in the air or water, and they're effectively sitting around doing nothing.  The arrowhawk is great against flying magic users (or at least defending against them), but an equivalent-level fighter who can reach it can gut it like a fish in one round.  The astral construct can effectively emulate all of the creatures to some degree by proper application of it's abilites, although not always to the same degree.  This, to me, shows balance.  The spell is not invalidated by the psionic power, and vice-versa.  Power is sacrificed for utility or the reverse.  An Astral Construct can be tailored to it's situation, while a summoner has to pick and choose, and hope he has the right beastie for the right situation.This doesn't even factor the caster's abilities into the argument, which applies to both spellcaster and psion, and is a whole 'nother discussion.</blockquote>

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