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<blockquote data-quote="redrick" data-source="post: 6574097" data-attributes="member: 6777696">I usually GM, but have recently started playing at a local store to get more of the experience of a player, and I've created a rogue sage (wizard's dirty errand boy). In looking at the different subclasses, &quot;thief&quot; is definitely most in line with my character, because that's what he is. The guy who sneaks into rival wizard towers and steals their scrolls and books and potions for his employer, a wizard with few scruples.However, in looking at the low-level features of the subclass, I notice that these are all fairly non-combat features built around the combat action economy. They don't grant bonuses to sleight of hand, thieves tools or climbing. They allow the thief to do these things faster when on the 6-second clock of a combat turn. Cool, because this makes the thief a potentially very creative class to play in combat. But, in practice, how do other players of thieves find this feature being used in your game? Does your DM just create a lot of scenarios with mechanical traps and monsters working in concert? Or lots of ropes and ladders hanging around? I'll admit that these things are almost never present in my game.What kinds of fun things do you do with your sleight of hands as a bonus action?My concern would be that it becomes one of those classes where it's only useful because the GM specifically modifies gameplay to introduce elements that allow the character to shine. As opposed to a lot of situations where the players turn to each other and say, &quot;man, wouldn't it be nice if we had a thief subclass in this moment?&quot; Personally, I find the former a little cheesy. I think part of the whole 'bounded accuracy' ethos is that the challenges don't have to be fine-tuned to every party, because the party still has a chance to succeed at things it is bad at.Anyway, I'll probably still take the subclass regardless, but curious on thoughts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="redrick, post: 6574097, member: 6777696"] I usually GM, but have recently started playing at a local store to get more of the experience of a player, and I've created a rogue sage (wizard's dirty errand boy). In looking at the different subclasses, "thief" is definitely most in line with my character, because that's what he is. The guy who sneaks into rival wizard towers and steals their scrolls and books and potions for his employer, a wizard with few scruples. However, in looking at the low-level features of the subclass, I notice that these are all fairly non-combat features built around the combat action economy. They don't grant bonuses to sleight of hand, thieves tools or climbing. They allow the thief to do these things faster when on the 6-second clock of a combat turn. Cool, because this makes the thief a potentially very creative class to play in combat. But, in practice, how do other players of thieves find this feature being used in your game? Does your DM just create a lot of scenarios with mechanical traps and monsters working in concert? Or lots of ropes and ladders hanging around? I'll admit that these things are almost never present in my game. What kinds of fun things do you do with your sleight of hands as a bonus action? My concern would be that it becomes one of those classes where it's only useful because the GM specifically modifies gameplay to introduce elements that allow the character to shine. As opposed to a lot of situations where the players turn to each other and say, "man, wouldn't it be nice if we had a thief subclass in this moment?" Personally, I find the former a little cheesy. I think part of the whole 'bounded accuracy' ethos is that the challenges don't have to be fine-tuned to every party, because the party still has a chance to succeed at things it is bad at. Anyway, I'll probably still take the subclass regardless, but curious on thoughts. [/QUOTE]

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