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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 8400354" data-attributes="member: 6799660">I think discussions about what fits what category probably belong in another thread, but it does highlight my point that they are arguable. Regarding Optimized(silly), it sure could be there, but I'm not sure that it serves a purpose. Unoptimized(silly) is a category I include because it demarks a section of rules-wise-possible builds that I don't think ever sensibly would exist in the wild (outside of someone trying to make some point) and that include a lower bound of what technically is possible in the game, but really doesn't need to be considered. For example, if for some reason you are trying to come up with an 'average effectiveness' metric or the like, you don't really need to include the non-proficient greatsword-wielding wizard (and in fact including it would skew the results towards something less meaningful to actual-play situations). I don't know if a parallel situation arises with Optimized(silly). One-handed quarterstaff and shield with PAM is powerful, similar to other good options like halberd-PAM-GWM or the like, but not over and above. I suppose nuclear wizard skews discussions about damage potential to the point where including it and excluding it change the results, so there is that. It will all depend on how deep into the weeds one gets on this.</blockquote>