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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 4293809" data-attributes="member: 18">I agree with the above, by and large (I think it's actually little behind, but not very far).I don't think this is as absolutely true as you'd like it to be. If the mechanics were invisible, it would be. But they're not. The players are aware of them, and they can affect the suspension of disbelief.Whilst I have some sympathy for what you're suggesting, and sometimes it's even true, I think this is argument that gets weaker every single time someone uses it, because the very fact that it's having to be endlessly repeated suggests that it's NOT the imaginations of the players that are at fault, but the judgement of the designers, or their way of putting things.Ultimately, you cannot always blame the audience for failing to &quot;imagine hard enough&quot;.4E is strong in many regards, but I don't think many people would put versimiltude as one it's primary strengths, would you?It sure does feel like a hybrid of the two, in fact I was thinking that very thing on the train earlier. I just don't find that as something that makes it less interesting. Time will tell of course. I thought 3E was jolly exciting at release and had stopped playing it entirely within two years (started again in late 3.5E, though), I guess the proof of 4E for me, will be in future supplements and where they take the line.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 4293809, member: 18"] I agree with the above, by and large (I think it's actually little behind, but not very far). I don't think this is as absolutely true as you'd like it to be. If the mechanics were invisible, it would be. But they're not. The players are aware of them, and they can affect the suspension of disbelief. Whilst I have some sympathy for what you're suggesting, and sometimes it's even true, I think this is argument that gets weaker every single time someone uses it, because the very fact that it's having to be endlessly repeated suggests that it's NOT the imaginations of the players that are at fault, but the judgement of the designers, or their way of putting things. Ultimately, you cannot always blame the audience for failing to "imagine hard enough". 4E is strong in many regards, but I don't think many people would put versimiltude as one it's primary strengths, would you? It sure does feel like a hybrid of the two, in fact I was thinking that very thing on the train earlier. I just don't find that as something that makes it less interesting. Time will tell of course. I thought 3E was jolly exciting at release and had stopped playing it entirely within two years (started again in late 3.5E, though), I guess the proof of 4E for me, will be in future supplements and where they take the line. [/QUOTE]

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