Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mystaros" data-source="post: 1989674" data-attributes="member: 3921">It was Ibn Khaldun who first noticed and codified the theory of the rise and fall of civilizations (or rather, one should say, in modern written history, he was the first we know of to have done it). The theory is that all societies pass through the following phases:SavageryBarbarismCivilizationDecadenceCollapseThe collapse point is that which you are asking about. Most collapses, historically, have been due to a society's fall into decadence and its resulting conquest by a more vibrant, younger barbarian society or civilized society. Some, however, experience "cataclysmic" collapse, even at the height of their civilization. In a magical world this is even more likely.Examples are numerous. The Invoked Devastation and Rain of Colorless Fire which ended the Sueloise and Baklunish empires of Greyhawk, the Great Rain of Fire which ended the Kingdom of Blackmoor, The Destruction of Alphatia, the Doom of Nithia of Mystara, the Cataclysm of Krynn, the War of the Gods of Cerilia, and the Fall of Netheril in the Forgotten Realms are just a few such examples.These examples show that, given a couple *thousand* years, things return to "normal," or what would be considered the default D&D medieval style setting technology and culture wise. The Dark Sun example, however, shows what happens when the Cataclysm isn't just a cultural phenomenon, but also what is known as an "eco-cide," or the destruction of an entire ecology. In such extreme cases (Gamma World serves as another), there is no telling where things might stand a thousand years hence.Your example notes a people who not only were ninefold decimated, but also lost all access to all texts (magical or otherwise), was transported to an unsettled land, and lost most of their spellcasters.Well, immediately, I would say, they revert to Savagery, somewhat less than Stone Age technology. Like survivors of the apocalypse in Gamma World, they would use whatever tools they had at hand, and try to learn to make new ones. Depending on how far removed the culture was originally from the Stone Age, this could take a generation or a thousand generations — "flint knapping" is not a human instinct (though you might rule it was a dwarven instinct). So immediately, their tech level falls to nil.However, depending on their new location and the nature of the local gods, that might not be that bad a thing. IF they make contact with the local gods,a nd the gods like the idea of civilization in the area, things can be picked up again relatively quickly, as clerics use spells to find ores and other resources to build up civilization... remember, clerics do not need spell books, or even innate spellcasting abilities, they just need a god willing to speak with them and grant them power in return for worship! So if the gods are still around, things will return to "normal" in a relatively small area in a decent amount of time... say, three human generations maybe. Faster if there are still dwarves with smithing skills and elves with other cultural skills.But let us presume this is not the case. Let us presume that the group is entirely human, without arcane magic, and the local gods are unattentive or non-existent. You are probably looking at, at least, one or two millennia in savagery, before a level of barbarian culture (read, tribal metalworking society for these purposes) evolves. Then another thousand years in barbarism, before a full-fledged civilization (read, urban specialized culture) evolves. So, two to three thousand years or so back from being dropped into nowhere to a fair level of civilization. That's minimally.As others have mentioend, these people will not care about the old civilization, and will have mixed myths and legends about it, if they even remember it at all. It left no physical remnants (they were in a new, untainted land, remember), no texts, and there were not even any gods left to help them remember. So, at best, it might be remembered in legends as a kind of "Eden that Fell" or "Hell from which We Escaped," but probably has no bearing on the life of a member of the modern culture at all... with one exception. In the case where the gods of the old culture survived, and maintained some presence, the Old Faith will definitely consider it either a Paradise or Hell, depending on their god's interpretation of what went down, and act accordingly based on the mores and events that they can recall. If the cataclysm was caused by wizards, for example, wizardry will be severely frowned upon. If the cataclysm was caused by "the ungodliness of the people," then they will have strong theocratic beliefs. And so forth ( a good example of this is the old Horseclans series by Robert Adams, especially the Dirtman priests and the Ehleenee priests of the Old Faith).Whoa... late getting back to work. Gotta go. More later...</blockquote>

Verification