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<blockquote data-quote="PapersAndPaychecks" data-source="post: 4532786" data-attributes="member: 28854">There's usually a narrative element, with or without a roll.I personally dislike ability checks.&nbsp; They render a 1st level character no less effective than a 10th level character, and take no account of class, which is absolutely key to making sense of the 1e system--so I prefer (and OSRIC advocates) using saving throws, or modified saving throws, as checks rather than direct rolls against ability scores.So a &quot;sense motive&quot; to determine if someone is telling the truth might be a Wisdom check if you're an ability-check advocate, but I'd use the base numbers for a poison save, modified by your Wisdom bonus.&nbsp; The result is then:1) A high-level character is automatically better at it;2) A character with high wisdom gets a bonus; and3) Your chance of success also varies by class (and in this example, cleric or druid &gt; paladin &gt; thief or assassin &gt; mage or illusionist &gt; fighter or ranger).None of this is intuitive unless you know the rules backwards, though.&nbsp; That's a feature of the 1e/OD&amp;D systems--they do include systems you can adapt to any circumstance, but you have to be able trust your referee to make the right call and be willing to run with him when he thinks outside the box.3e and 4e codify all this stuff which makes them a lot more forgiving of referee inexperience or occasional stupidity.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="PapersAndPaychecks, post: 4532786, member: 28854"] There's usually a narrative element, with or without a roll. I personally dislike ability checks. They render a 1st level character no less effective than a 10th level character, and take no account of class, which is absolutely key to making sense of the 1e system--so I prefer (and OSRIC advocates) using saving throws, or modified saving throws, as checks rather than direct rolls against ability scores. So a "sense motive" to determine if someone is telling the truth might be a Wisdom check if you're an ability-check advocate, but I'd use the base numbers for a poison save, modified by your Wisdom bonus. The result is then: 1) A high-level character is automatically better at it; 2) A character with high wisdom gets a bonus; and 3) Your chance of success also varies by class (and in this example, cleric or druid > paladin > thief or assassin > mage or illusionist > fighter or ranger). None of this is intuitive unless you know the rules backwards, though. That's a feature of the 1e/OD&D systems--they do include systems you can adapt to any circumstance, but you have to be able trust your referee to make the right call and be willing to run with him when he thinks outside the box. 3e and 4e codify all this stuff which makes them a lot more forgiving of referee inexperience or occasional stupidity. [/QUOTE]

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