How does Iron Heroes ... ?

[Jeff Wilder]

My next campaign is going to be a Savage Tide game. I'm considering using Iron Heroes as the rules-set available for players, but I'm curious about how that would work at higher levels.

As far as I can tell, the idea behind Iron Heroes is that non-magical heroes are "powered up" enough to meet standard D&D challenges, without being crippled by the lack of magic. Theoretically, I've read, you can play a group of Iron Heroes through a D&D adventure with few problems.

Theoretically, I can see that, but does it work in practice? If a D&D adventure is written -- as most Adventure Paths eventually are -- with spells like teleport, passwall, and commune in mind, can a group of Iron Heroes honestly have a chance of success? Is this sort of thing an example of what doesn't work ... i.e., the exception that proves the rule?

More specifically, would Iron Heroes work with the Savage Tide Adventure Path, as it currently stands, without substantial rewriting?

 

[Baron Opal]

"Yes, but..."

Iron Heroes characters do have a chance of success, but sometimes you do need to make allowances. In case of a passwall, a character with the Sunder feat tree and a maul could hammer through an appropriate amount of stone or masonry in, say, an hour. But, it would make a hell of a lot of noise and would take an hour rather than a round. In the couple of things that I've done with Iron Heroes I haven't had any difficulties except in two particular areas; travel and divinations. (As you expected)

The travel aspects aren't a big deal as long as they can walk or take a boat there and have the time. I glossed over a teleport by having them make a deal with a fey. They were able to travel into a cave at night, wander through the caverns, and came out of a cave near their destination at dawn the next day. They had some lack-of-sleep penalties, which they could ignore, actually, and it took a night's worth of time.

The big problem that I see with Savage Tide is that there will be a need for water breathing of some variety. I don't actually know, just an assumption. I have the issues but haven't read each adventure thuroughly. From my glancing through I don't recall any problems. There are some creatures with some hefty DR, but the berserker and weapon master will plow through it. Some creatures fly, the archer will take them down. Even to the point of neutralizing their flight with a trick shot so that the others can do the critters in.

If you don't have an arcanist in your group it actually makes it easier. Iron Heroes is all about "dangerous, uncontrolled magic". This lets you have the characters obtain charms from the hag, but then they have to do a service, or something. Have them grow gills or something from the charm.

If divination is required that can be difficult. They can gain a magical widget that does the trick, but it comes with a curse. They always come with a curse. If it's just a matter of figuing out who to talk to in the town, or doing research in the library the skill system is robust enough so that the more minor spells aren't necesary. You can easily have Sherlock level observational skills in the party.

The main problems are navigating through hostile environment, very rapid transit, and supernatural advice. That still requires magic. But, Iron Heroes is not "no magic". It is "no safe magic." This magic can come from the arcanist in the party or an NPC with a shared agenda.

I'll page through the issues when I get a chance to see if I can find anything problematic.

 

[Felon]

Theoretically, I can see that, but does it work in practice? If a D&D adventure is written -- as most Adventure Paths eventually are -- with spells like teleport, passwall, and commune in mind, can a group of Iron Heroes honestly have a chance of success? Is this sort of thing an example of what doesn't work ... i.e., the exception that proves the rule?

When folks refer to Iron Heroes characters as being on an equal footing with D&D characters, it's basically in terms of battle prowess. An Iron Heroes character is a good monster-killer. Obviously, trying to fly without magic produces unsatisfying results much of the time. OTOH, Iron Heroes are heads and tails better at physical stunts than most D&D characters.

So, no, you cannot expect Iron Heroes to teleport on their own. But the DM can provide convenient modes of teleportation that are player-external, such as Ultima-style lunar gates.