Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 6470886" data-attributes="member: 6787503">Like I said above, every game has rules. If a rule is seen to be prone to metagaming does it need to be changed? I don't think so. The metagamers will simply move on to another rule in their quest to gain advantage. This has the potential of breaking the game. So to discourage exploitation of the rules at our tables the first thing we can do as DMs is to refrain from engaging in this type of nonsense ourselves so that players don't learn to do this from the monsters they're fighting. Exploiting the rules based on technicalities does not an enjoyable TRPG make. But people will try to do this.Now to address your arguments, as I quoted above, the rules for how a DM determines surprise state that the DM compares the stealth check of anyone attempting to hide with the perception scores of the other side. So it's only talking about whole sides when referring to those who may be surprised, and it specifically says that anyone, be he goblin, halfling, or kobold (god forbid!) may attempt to use stealth and thus surprise an entire party of 20th level characters. I have no problem with the examples you have given, and I certainly don't have a problem with both sides being surprised at the same time. I doubt very much that a dragon with expertise in perception would easily fall for such a gambit, but you can let your players find that out for themselves.</blockquote>