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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6477850" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Because the goblins already see a threat. In psychological terms, they are already in Condition Red: threat identified, entering kill mode.You can still be surprised when you're in kill mode, but it's not the mechanical D&amp;D version of &quot;surprise&quot; wherein you get no reaction and can't take opportunity attacks. It's just regular old surprise where the tactical situation turns out to be different than you thought: you just used your action to doff your shield, sheathe your sword, and pull our your bow in order to shoot the goblins 100' away from you, but wait! now there's a troll attacking me and I really wish I had known this was about to happen before I doffed my shield.As for why adventurers don't walk around in Condition Red all the time: I suppose you could, but it would drive you psychotic. The door to the room opens: roll initiative. (Everyone pulls out weapons.) Oh, just kidding it was the chambermaid. Roll initiative. (Everyone readies an action in case she attacks.) She drops the meal platter and bolts. Do you take your opportunity attack? Etc.TLDR; you can be surprised by a third party in combat, just as you can be surprised by the enemy strategy, but &quot;surprise&quot; from the mechanical perspective only happens to someone who &quot;doesn't notice a threat&quot; and is in Condition White or Yellow. (See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper</a> for more on threat conditions.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6477850, member: 6787650"] Because the goblins already see a threat. In psychological terms, they are already in Condition Red: threat identified, entering kill mode. You can still be surprised when you're in kill mode, but it's not the mechanical D&D version of "surprise" wherein you get no reaction and can't take opportunity attacks. It's just regular old surprise where the tactical situation turns out to be different than you thought: you just used your action to doff your shield, sheathe your sword, and pull our your bow in order to shoot the goblins 100' away from you, but wait! now there's a troll attacking me and I really wish I had known this was about to happen [I]before[/I] I doffed my shield. As for why adventurers don't walk around in Condition Red all the time: I suppose you could, but it would drive you psychotic. The door to the room opens: roll initiative. (Everyone pulls out weapons.) Oh, just kidding it was the chambermaid. Roll initiative. (Everyone readies an action in case she attacks.) She drops the meal platter and bolts. Do you take your opportunity attack? Etc. TLDR; you can be surprised by a third party in combat, just as you can be surprised by the enemy strategy, but "surprise" from the mechanical perspective only happens to someone who "doesn't notice a threat" and is in Condition White or Yellow. (See [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper[/url] for more on threat conditions.) [/QUOTE]

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