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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ancalagon" data-source="post: 8399179" data-attributes="member: 23">I too think that Group stealth checks MUST be discussed if we are going to talk about surprise.  They are there for a very good reason - without them, stealth is virtually impossible for a group, even if everyone in the group is stealthy.Let us take the circumstances of a group of 10 goblins trying to ambush travelers, and the PCs are their next target.  (Keep in mind that the reverse situation is very possible! i.et. the PCs are ambushing a band of marauding goblins).Let us suppose that the party has a passive perception of 14 (I know some will be lower and  higher, but let's just say it's one number for now).  Goblins have +6 to stealth (which is better than I remembered ha!), so they need to roll 9 or higher to beat the DC.  This means that one goblin has 60% chance of keeping hidden from the PCs.  However, without group checks, if you had 2 goblins, they both would have to pass it, so they now have 36% chance of making it (0.6X0.6).If your ambushing party has 5 goblins (that's not a big group!), they have a measly  7.7% chance of success. Our band of 10 goblins has 0.6% chance of making it.  That is terrible.  It effectively means that ambushes "don't work".   But we know they do, sometimes!  A group check makes ambushes possible.  If you don't allow group checks, you are basically declaring that in your world, groups cannot be sneaky.  Is that what you want?  Because that is the consequence of your ruling.</blockquote>

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