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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7021643" data-attributes="member: 12731">More generally: I'm only interested in one thing and one thing only: Can you use the spell to take a creature out of a combat? In a way that is more persistant than, say, Hold Person? That is, in a way that is more difficult (or time-consuming) to shake off than making the listed Investigation check?If yes - then sorry, your interpretation is broken: that's far too powerful for a mere level 2 spell, especially considering that1) Phantasmal Force targets Intelligence (often the weakest save/check)2) Phantasmal Force lacks any harsh restrictions (such as a language-barrier or working on humanoids only). The no undead/constructs limit is comparatively a minor one.I mean - these factors ALREADY make the spell more powerful and flexible than most alternatives.I'm sure its fun to think of clever ways to confound foes. I'm just convinced the issue of combat and hostility needs to be front and center, for gameplay balance issues. That is, BEFORE a combat starts, using illusions like this spell is fair game. As soon as hostilities commence, this spell can't be far superior to a similar &quot;save or suck&quot; spell like Hold Person or Blindness/Deafness or the like.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7021643, member: 12731"] More generally: I'm only interested in one thing and one thing only: Can you use the spell to take a creature out of a combat? In a way that is more persistant than, say, Hold Person? That is, in a way that is more difficult (or time-consuming) to shake off than making the listed Investigation check? If yes - then sorry, your interpretation is broken: that's far too powerful for a mere level 2 spell, especially considering that 1) Phantasmal Force targets Intelligence (often the weakest save/check) 2) Phantasmal Force lacks any harsh restrictions (such as a language-barrier or working on humanoids only). The no undead/constructs limit is comparatively a minor one. I mean - these factors ALREADY make the spell more powerful and flexible than most alternatives. I'm sure its fun to think of clever ways to confound foes. I'm just convinced the issue of combat and hostility needs to be front and center, for gameplay balance issues. That is, BEFORE a combat starts, using illusions like this spell is fair game. As soon as hostilities commence, this spell can't be far superior to a similar "save or suck" spell like Hold Person or Blindness/Deafness or the like. [/QUOTE]

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