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<blockquote data-quote="Pvt. Winslow" data-source="post: 7031611" data-attributes="member: 6779864">One thing I always consider when evaluating this spell as a DM, is this: Don't forget that NPCs can use this spell on the Players.Generally, I rule that this spell can physically restrain a character, but the character's efforts to break free of that restraint is the Investigation check. Basically, this spell ends up being similar to Hold Person, targeting Int, and allows an Investigation check as an Action each round.I do this, because if we take most of the examples used in this thread to cleverly prevent the target from making said Investigation checks, and use in on a player, I'm pretty sure you'd have a pissed off Player. No one gets to tell them what they can or can't do. You can't tell them &quot;the cage is red hot, you wouldn't want to try and shoulder charge through it&quot;. They can come up with any number of reasons why yes they do want to shoulder charge it.I just extend that same courtesy to my NPCs and monsters. This spell is fantastic for limiting a creature's ability to affect a combat or scene, and eating up their Action each round on Investigation checks. But is it all that much better than Hold Person? Which also effectively removes a creature from a combat until it makes a save? I don't think so. The more you try to be clever and make illusions the target wouldn't think to make Investigation checks on, that's when break this spell. It isn't just Players that use Phantasmal Force. NPCs can use it too. Don't make this a save or lose the combat spell, and don't make it a &quot;I randomly choose to push my way out of the box, and oh I stumbled free? Guess it's an auto-success&quot; sort of spell. Keep it mechanical. Let those Investigation checks reflect their attempts, PC or NPC.I feel you end up with a lot less arguments at the table that way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pvt. Winslow, post: 7031611, member: 6779864"] One thing I always consider when evaluating this spell as a DM, is this: Don't forget that NPCs can use this spell on the Players. Generally, I rule that this spell [B]can[/B] physically restrain a character, but the character's efforts to break free of that restraint [B]is[/B] the Investigation check. Basically, this spell ends up being similar to Hold Person, targeting Int, and allows an Investigation check as an Action each round. I do this, because if we take most of the examples used in this thread to cleverly prevent the target from making said Investigation checks, and use in on a [B]player[/B], I'm pretty sure you'd have a pissed off Player. No one gets to tell them what they can or can't do. You can't tell them "the cage is red hot, you wouldn't want to try and shoulder charge through it". They can come up with any number of reasons why [I]yes[/I] they [I]do[/I] want to shoulder charge it. I just extend that same courtesy to my NPCs and monsters. This spell is fantastic for limiting a creature's ability to affect a combat or scene, and eating up their Action each round on Investigation checks. But is it all that much better than Hold Person? Which also effectively removes a creature from a combat until it makes a save? I don't think so. The more you try to be clever and make illusions the target wouldn't think to make Investigation checks on, [I]that's[/I] when break this spell. It isn't just Players that use Phantasmal Force. NPCs can use it too. Don't make this a save or lose the combat spell, and don't make it a "I randomly choose to push my way out of the box, and oh I stumbled free? Guess it's an auto-success" sort of spell. Keep it mechanical. Let those Investigation checks reflect their attempts, PC or NPC. I feel you end up with a lot less arguments at the table that way. [/QUOTE]

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