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<blockquote data-quote="Spatula" data-source="post: 4155535" data-attributes="member: 2198">Storytelling games all have rules because they are games (by definition), and all games have rules.&nbsp; You don't need rules for co-operative storytelling, just a shared set of assumptions amongst the participants.&nbsp; It comes down to what you're primarily after - telling a story, or playing a game.&nbsp; But as with most of the concepts in these discussions, there's a range of possible states between &quot;storytelling&quot; and &quot;game,&quot; and people will pick different points in the range as their individual ideal.So, yes, games have rules.&nbsp; But you don't need rules to tell stories, if that's what you're mainly interested in.Playability trumps X is not an absolute statement; it can't be, as different people have different ideas of what's playable and what's too complex, and furthermore those beliefs depend on the context.&nbsp; And what's &quot;fun&quot; to you isn't necessarily &quot;fun&quot; to others.&nbsp; &quot;Fun&quot; for some folks is the simulation or tactical complexity.&nbsp; Take a look at some historical wargames, or stuff like that old Star Trek space battle game (Starfleet Battles?).&nbsp; Those types of games aren't for me, but I'm not going to denigrate others for enjoying them.If ease of use is your goal, then D&amp;D in any incarnation probably isn't for you, as any particular incarnation is rather complex compared to most other games.&nbsp; Which is especially true of 3e &amp; 4e.&nbsp; You obviously want some simulation, and some tactical complexity, or you wouldn't be interested in 4e at all.&nbsp; Some people want more.&nbsp; Some people want less, and play other games than D&amp;D.&nbsp; There's nothing wrong with that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatula, post: 4155535, member: 2198"] Storytelling games all have rules because they are games (by definition), and all games have rules. You don't need rules for co-operative storytelling, just a shared set of assumptions amongst the participants. It comes down to what you're primarily after - telling a story, or playing a game. But as with most of the concepts in these discussions, there's a range of possible states between "storytelling" and "game," and people will pick different points in the range as their individual ideal. So, yes, games have rules. But you don't need rules to tell stories, if that's what you're mainly interested in. Playability trumps X is not an absolute statement; it can't be, as different people have different ideas of what's playable and what's too complex, and furthermore those beliefs depend on the context. And what's "fun" to you isn't necessarily "fun" to others. "Fun" for some folks [i]is[/i] the simulation or tactical complexity. Take a look at some historical wargames, or stuff like that old Star Trek space battle game (Starfleet Battles?). Those types of games aren't for me, but I'm not going to denigrate others for enjoying them. If ease of use is your goal, then D&D in any incarnation probably isn't for you, as any particular incarnation is rather complex compared to most other games. Which is especially true of 3e & 4e. You obviously want some simulation, and some tactical complexity, or you wouldn't be interested in 4e at all. Some people want more. Some people want less, and play other games than D&D. There's nothing wrong with that. [/QUOTE]

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