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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 4157200" data-attributes="member: 5143">No, I was just suggesting that sometimes restricting choices to only the fun ones can make a more fun game.  It's certainly possible (and perhaps even likely) that a group given infinite choice will still choose the fun options.I can tell you now, 4e doesn't restrict things as much as my above example.  I was just using it to illustrate that even if those were the only 2 options they were both still fun options.  I think it's a matter of having fun using the options you have instead of complaining about the options you don't.They aren't all barred, however.  The idea is that there IS still physics.  The rules just don't simulate them.  If we had rules that simulated physics exactly then we'd want to determine how much noise was made by the armor and equipment you are wearing each second of your movement and how heavy your footfalls were and then figure out the propagation of sound waves through the chamber, figuring out where they bounce to and how loud they were when they reached the dragon...and so on.  You can abstract some of that if you want the rules to be less precise, but you want to model those exact circumstances IN the rules somehow.  That means a roll of some sort to try to be quiet a roll of some sort to see if the dragon hears it, modifiers for distance and the like.You can still sneak past the dragon if the rules are not the physics of the world.  You just attempt to model it differently.  The questions become: Do I WANT the players to sneak past the dragon?  Is it more fun for them or me if it happens one way or another?  How difficult should it be to sneak past the dragon?  What are the consequences of failure?  What are the benefits of succeeding?  Does it help the story I want to tell if they succeed?  How about if they fail?Then you use the answer to those questions to determine a DC.  If it should be really hard set a hard DC, should be average set an average one, should be easy set an easy one.  If it doesn't matter if they succeed or fail might as well resort to the default and use a standard stealth vs perception roll.However, it gives the DM the power to say "A pure roll would have the PCs discovered every time.  I want them to get past this as it makes a more interesting encounter if they do, so I'll set it low."  Once again, yes, this is always something the DM COULD have done.  The difference is in the rules.  One system ENCOURAGES changing it based on those factors, the other one discourages it.</blockquote>

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