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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RealAlHazred" data-source="post: 6748858" data-attributes="member: 25818">Originally posted by Hellcow:Of course they would. But the point is that until a century ago, they didn't have to, because their R&D efforts were called "Aundair." Cyre's money - which was, remember, Galifar's money - was funding the construction of Aundair's arcane labs. So when the war begins - just a century ago - Cyre is faced with the daunting task of mobilizing an immediate defense and getting military conscription into place. They need to build up intelligence support, because what do you know, the King's Citadel is in the hands of Breland. Once they have a basic defense and intelligence running, they can turn to arcane research - but at that point, it's a matter of trying to scrounge the resources and technical expertise to build viable facilities in the middle of a war effort. Consider nations trying to get nuclear capability today. Aundair is essentially the US. It's got the expertise. It's got the facilities. It knows what rare elements are required, and it's got massive stockpiles of them. Saudi Arabia has a ton of money, but that doesn't mean they can just have a working nuclear bomb project going in five years. Not only do they not have the facilities, but without scientific experts they don't even know what the facilities need to be... and even once they get a facility constructed, they need the fissionable materials. That's Cyre's situation. It had wizards - some trained at the Arcane Congress in the past, others working there when war was declared - but a fraction of the hands-on expertise and none of the facilities, because mystical research was Aundair's purpose in Galifar; Cyre's was governance. Again: over the course of a century, they'd build up as quickly as they could. They'd get Cannith help in constructing their own facilities. They'd fund their wizards well - though again, the issue is that Aundair had the benefit of centuries worth of stockpiled components to use. So Cannith's forces would certainly have more magical support than, say, Breland or Thrane - I'm just saying that I don't see them as being the MOST "high-tech" of the Five Nations. And just to clarify: At the start of the war, Cyre had spies from the King's Citadel. It had officers trained in Rekkenmark. And it had wizards trained in the Arcane Congress. Heck, it had paladins of the Silver Flame. Every nation did, because these facilities were national services, and when the war broke out nationals returned to serve their nations. It's simply the case that the nations where these things were based had the BULK of these things because they were a point of national pride, and they also had the bulk of the facilities and resources associated with the specialty; Aundair has the strategic dragonshard reserves, for example. So nations have edges - but at the start of the war, Cyre's defense was being organized by Rekkenmark trained officers commanding units of Galifar's army - officers who had been trained alongside their Karrnathi counterparts. With that said: You raise an excellent point about the secondary power of gold - corruption. Breland may have had the edge in espionage because of the King's Citadel, but Cyre's gold would give it the ability to subvert experts in other nations. Originally posted by Hellcow:Indeed. Though to bring my point back to the start, what I'm saying is that if Thrane has five warforged titans, Cyre might have a hundred... and when if comes to fighting those Thrane archers, being able to field a few titans makes a big difference. The argument is whether Cyre's forces were more "high-tech". My point is that they had a superior quantity of Cannith magic, as opposed to unique advanced techniques; the most advanced techniques were in the hands of Aundair, which had been the center for magical research for the history of Galifar. Certainly. There's lots of brilliant artificers and arcanists who don't work for Cannith. And if they're citizens of Galifar and don't work for Cannith, odds are they honed those skills at Galifar's center for mystical training... the Arcane Congress in Aundair. Now, as I said above, pupils came from across Galifar and returned to their homes afterwards. But it still leaves arcane study as Aundair's point of national pride, and still leaves them with the facilities and resources. Even if Cyre seduces an Aundairian genius away with gold, they still need to build the facilities, get him dragonshards, etc. And bear in mind that it's not so simple as construction. Much of the most powerful magic draws on planar energies. Many of Aundair and Cannith's facilities are constructed in manifest zones, allowing them to tap this power. For the other nations - because EVERY nation immediate put its war magic program into high gear once the war started - it's not just about getting wizards and dragonshards, it's identifying manifest zones and other places that are ideal for construction.</blockquote>

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