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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 7810303" data-attributes="member: 6677017">Personally, I think the game looks like it's worth $250 as far as the production goes, but the rules themselves could affect that impression if I didn't feel they were of high enough quality.I bought the Torg Eternity kickstarter boxed set for $200, with a lot of the same sort of things as this one looks like it has. I enjoy the rules of the game, and the physical play aids are a major boost to the experience. You only need the rules, dice and the special card deck to play, but the various other tokens improve the experience greatly. Not only is the tactile element of handling little condition and wound markers enjoyable, but it means that, combined with the variety of included adventures, I almost never have to write down anything (and I'm the GM) during play. I only have a pencil there "just in case". It makes me not want to play it online because I can't use all the toys. But here's the thing: the basic game (assuming you get your cards usable in an online format) can be played just fine and enjoyed without all of that extra stuff at normal RPG pricing (hardcover and pdf available). If you buy all of that extra stuff you really are paying for an upgraded play experience. I'll also point out that I do not have a lot of money and that was a significant investment for me. This isn't something I can do regularly.In my opinion that is the ideal model for both customers and publishers. A good quality game at a standard price-point, with higher price premium versions being value-added. Bonus points if there is a free quick-start or bare bones (D&D Basic style) pdf for people who aren't ready to commit.So that's where I'm personally coming from, but I think we need to look at the psychology going on with regards to the various experiences different people are having. Emotional responses are based on actual, understandable, reasons.Why would anyone resent high-priced RPGs?This isn't as ridiculous as it might first sound. An RPG is inherently an imagination experience. The rules for the game are just instructions for how to direct our imaginations in certain ways. People reasonably object to paying a lot of money for someone to tell you how to use your own imagination in an enjoyable way. If you want to go a little lighter on the imagination, but stick with the paying for game rules idea: how would you feel if playing a sport required buying a book that explained the rules of the sport? Buying the equipment, sure. Cheap or premium based on what you can afford. The option to buy various extra accessories is always there. But it's the information age, and we absolutely expect to be able to go online and look up how to play the game. And I expect most people would be rather dissatisfied if someone held the IP to the rules for a sport and required you to purchase them.Most people today don't want to pay for ideas alone. We really don't. This isn't the ancient world where knowledge was available to a few who spent years "earning" the right to know stuff. Physical objects, yes. Art, yes. That all depends on the individual's preferences. But ideas? No. Just no.*And I agree with that. Heck, even the US Copyright laws agree with that with regards to games.But, you say, what about novels? Do we feel like we have some kind of right to the story without having to pay for it? I mean, we're probably only going to read it one time even. Well, most people are okay with the idea that they should pay for (or borrow from a friend or library) a novel. Because what you're paying for there is essentially equivalent to the setting element of an RPG. The "fluff". I don't think there is a lot of a negative response about paying for fluff/fiction, as long as people feel that the price is reasonable. And the intuitive comparison there probably is with other forms of fiction. Some of us remember buying paperbacks for $4. Both novels and RPG books have come up in price, but I believe there is a comparison to be made there as far as what consumers intuitively feel the fiction ("fluff") of an RPG is worth. And note that, even there, people generally expect to be able to get the non-artistic elements of the fiction ("just the facts") for free. I'm pretty sure I could look up timelines of the Star Wars Expanded Universe if I were so inclined and find out the basics of what happened without paying for more than my internet access. People, to a greater or lesser degree, respect artists. People don't respect knowledge being kept behind a paywall.We don't want to pay more than a pittance for rules. We'll pay fair market value for artistic presentation of fiction/fluff. And we'll pay based on our personal preferences for art and toys. And that all makes sense.I think that's the reality that creators of RPGs should take into account. People feel like they have (essentially) a right to know the rules of an RPG. You might as well put those out for free--it will build good will and it doesn't seem to have negatively impacted the sales of D&D, Pathfinder, FATE, etc. Then compare to fiction to determine what sorts of prices to charge for the setting/adventures/fluff, and compare to other art and enhancements to determine what to charge for those. (I essentially bought the Alpha Omega line as art and setting books, knowing from the reviews I'd read that I probably wouldn't like the rules.)...To address another point in the discussion, there is a real issue with GMs bearing a huge share of the cost compared to players. I can't seem to get my players (most of which have more money than me) to even buy stuff for themselves. I've told everyone in my group a couple times about Humble Bundles where you could get the core books+ of a game line for $1, and encouraged them to buy it in case we want to play. Nobody did. I literally just bought them each a copy one time, which is absolutely ridiculous. I have a D&D player who has been playing with me since 2015 and still doesn't have a PHB.But...at the same time, as a GM, I want to be in control of what I do. If I ask everyone to chip in--or worse, to pay me--then I'd feel obligated to run exactly what they want. I'd feel like my performance is constantly under review by an employer--not the feeling I want in my recreational environment. If I buy everything myself, then they can take or leave what I offer to run, but at least I'm in control of my role-playing vision (so to speak). I get to feel like an artist rather than a service provider.I'm not sure if there is any "fix" for that GM/Player cost discrepancy, but it does mean the price comparisons that involve splitting costs amongst the group just don't apply for many role-players.So there is a lot of stuff going on here. There is a market no one begrudges for premium presentations of otherwise standard-price available games. There is a contextually understandable demand for free (or very cheap) access to the game rules of any RPG that comes out. And there is a difficult to address unequal cost distribution amongst players/GMs for many role-players.* People will pay for ideas in the realm of self-help books or intricate technical manuals...but even that is becoming less necessary and willingness is dropping as the information becomes available for free.</blockquote>

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