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How far away can a person make perception checks?
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<blockquote data-quote="Xetheral" data-source="post: 7825309" data-attributes="member: 6802765"><p>Thank you for letting me know that my posts are coming across as dismissive. That's helpful information. My intention in emphasizing different styles of play is to be as <em>inclusive</em> as possible by recognizing that the utility of calling for a perception check will vary from table to table, so knowing that I'm achieving the opposite result is important (and disconcerting).</p><p></p><p>To answer your questions, I don't see style of play as merely a framing device: I see it as the central factor determining whether it is a useful tool for the DM to call for a perception check to determine the distance at which a creature is seen. So I have to disagree with you--I think there is indeed a style of play issue here (and an outcome-determinitive one at that). </p><p></p><p>Am I correct in understanding that you disagree with me on whether the utility of calling for a perception check will vary from table to table based on play style? If so, and you'd like to explore that disagreement further, please let me know. If you'd rather not pursue that line of discussion, I'm fine with that too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It appears we also disagree on the scope of the Perception skill. I would note that the description of the skill in the PHB 178 says that "[Perception] measures your general awareness of your surroundings and the keenness of your senses." Both general awareness and keenness would seem to me to be highly relevent to determining how far away a creature is detected, so Wisdom (Perception) checks would appear to me to be an appropriate tool to use if a check is to be called for.</p><p></p><p>I see luck as involved (in certain circumstances) as part of the abstraction of the ability check. If the players and the creature(s) are both moving over uneven terrain, for example, the DM isn't likely to have exact details on line-of-sight distances between particular locations. Instead, the DM might only be able to determine that the PCs would only have intermittent line of sight to the creature. Resolving whether a PC is generally aware enough (and has keen enough senses) to detect the creature(s) in those intermittent moments would seem to me to be part of the abstraction of an ability check, just as an attack roll is an abstraction of whether a character is skilled enough and happens to be in the right position to take advantage of intermittent openings in a foe's defenses.</p><p></p><p>That's my personal perspective anyway--I recognize that the role of ability checks is entirely up to the DM and that other posters will have different equally-valid opinions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xetheral, post: 7825309, member: 6802765"] Thank you for letting me know that my posts are coming across as dismissive. That's helpful information. My intention in emphasizing different styles of play is to be as [I]inclusive[/I] as possible by recognizing that the utility of calling for a perception check will vary from table to table, so knowing that I'm achieving the opposite result is important (and disconcerting). To answer your questions, I don't see style of play as merely a framing device: I see it as the central factor determining whether it is a useful tool for the DM to call for a perception check to determine the distance at which a creature is seen. So I have to disagree with you--I think there is indeed a style of play issue here (and an outcome-determinitive one at that). Am I correct in understanding that you disagree with me on whether the utility of calling for a perception check will vary from table to table based on play style? If so, and you'd like to explore that disagreement further, please let me know. If you'd rather not pursue that line of discussion, I'm fine with that too. It appears we also disagree on the scope of the Perception skill. I would note that the description of the skill in the PHB 178 says that "[Perception] measures your general awareness of your surroundings and the keenness of your senses." Both general awareness and keenness would seem to me to be highly relevent to determining how far away a creature is detected, so Wisdom (Perception) checks would appear to me to be an appropriate tool to use if a check is to be called for. I see luck as involved (in certain circumstances) as part of the abstraction of the ability check. If the players and the creature(s) are both moving over uneven terrain, for example, the DM isn't likely to have exact details on line-of-sight distances between particular locations. Instead, the DM might only be able to determine that the PCs would only have intermittent line of sight to the creature. Resolving whether a PC is generally aware enough (and has keen enough senses) to detect the creature(s) in those intermittent moments would seem to me to be part of the abstraction of an ability check, just as an attack roll is an abstraction of whether a character is skilled enough and happens to be in the right position to take advantage of intermittent openings in a foe's defenses. That's my personal perspective anyway--I recognize that the role of ability checks is entirely up to the DM and that other posters will have different equally-valid opinions. [/QUOTE]
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