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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6279539" data-attributes="member: 6669384">The use and abuse of Illusions has a long and storied history in D&amp;D, and it will continue in Pathfinder, I'm sure.Here's the bottom line on handling them:&nbsp; Read the spells.&nbsp; Know what they can and can't do.If a spell says it can do real damage, it does real damage.&nbsp; It is not dependent on the caster having ever felt that type of damage, nor is it psychsomatic in nature:&nbsp; The recipient of the spell doesn't even have to know what kind or amount of damage a particular flash of light should do.&nbsp; The damage is real because that's what that spell does.If the spell refers to doing real damage, but doesn't mention other effects then you need to be aware of what is and isn't damage.&nbsp; Disintegrate can do real damage.&nbsp; It can also physically destroy things, regardless of hit points or hardness.&nbsp; The dice of damage are damage.&nbsp; The actual reduction to dust isn't.&nbsp; The sudden death from spells like Symbol of Death aren't damage.&nbsp; Neither are things like Symbol of Sleep or Slay Living.&nbsp; Also watch what the user is trying to do.&nbsp; The original spells, way back in D&amp;D (before even Basic or AD&amp;D 1st Ed) said illusions could me made of any &quot;object, creature or force.&quot;&nbsp; If you see language like that, take it literally:&nbsp; Object *OR* creature *OR* force, not objects, creatures and forces.&nbsp; One object, or one creature or one force.&nbsp; Archer?&nbsp; Cool.&nbsp; Arrow?&nbsp; Great.&nbsp; Archer shooting arrow?&nbsp; Nope, that's object *AND* creature.&nbsp; Dragon?&nbsp; No problem.&nbsp; Dragon breathing fire?&nbsp; Sorry, that's creature AND force.&nbsp; You can't have both.People used to argue that illusions can't kill because you can't imagine yourself dead.&nbsp; Sorry, not true.&nbsp; As written, if the damage from an illusion is listed as real, it's real damage and has nothing to do with yours or the target's imagination.&nbsp; Disbelief these days takes the form of a Will save.&nbsp; Reason to disbelieve is hard to pin down, but it's not the final word on the topic.&nbsp; That's just your raffle ticket.&nbsp; It buys you roll of the dice, nothing more.Some people try to play that they go through life throwing sand at everything in the belief that contact dispels illusions.&nbsp; It doesn't.&nbsp; At least not automatically and universally.&nbsp; As written, some illusions are dismissed by disbelieving contact.&nbsp; Some specify that they are dispelled unless the caster can make the illusion react appropriately.Question: What's the appropriate reaction for an illusion of a stone wall when someone touches it or throws sand at it?&nbsp; Answer:&nbsp; To stand there and do nothing, just like a real stone wall would.Question:&nbsp; What is the appropriate reaction for an illusion of a cloud of fog, or a Darkness effect, when someone touches or throws sand at it?Answer:&nbsp; To stand there and do nothing, just like a real cloud of fog or field of Darkness would.Question:&nbsp; Can an Illusion of a Bridge carry believing people across a chasm?Answer:&nbsp; Unless the spell contains some percentage of &quot;real&quot; component, the answer is no.&nbsp; And the one thing we can all be certain of is that someone will disagree with every single point I've made. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 6279539, member: 6669384"] The use and abuse of Illusions has a long and storied history in D&D, and it will continue in Pathfinder, I'm sure. Here's the bottom line on handling them: Read the spells. Know what they can and can't do. If a spell says it can do real damage, it does real damage. It is not dependent on the caster having ever felt that type of damage, nor is it psychsomatic in nature: The recipient of the spell doesn't even have to know what kind or amount of damage a particular flash of light should do. The damage is real because that's what that spell does. If the spell refers to doing real damage, but doesn't mention other effects then you need to be aware of what is and isn't damage. [I]Disintegrate[/I] can do real damage. It can also physically destroy things, regardless of hit points or hardness. The dice of damage are damage. The actual reduction to dust isn't. The sudden death from spells like [I]Symbol of Death[/I] aren't damage. Neither are things like [I]Symbol of Sleep[/I] or [I]Slay Living[/I]. Also watch what the user is trying to do. The original spells, way back in D&D (before even Basic or AD&D 1st Ed) said illusions could me made of any "object, creature or force." If you see language like that, take it literally: Object *OR* creature *OR* force, not objects, creatures and forces. One object, or one creature or one force. Archer? Cool. Arrow? Great. Archer shooting arrow? Nope, that's object *AND* creature. Dragon? No problem. Dragon breathing fire? Sorry, that's creature AND force. You can't have both. People used to argue that illusions can't kill because you can't imagine yourself dead. Sorry, not true. As written, if the damage from an illusion is listed as real, it's real damage and has nothing to do with yours or the target's imagination. Disbelief these days takes the form of a Will save. Reason to disbelieve is hard to pin down, but it's not the final word on the topic. That's just your raffle ticket. It buys you roll of the dice, nothing more. Some people try to play that they go through life throwing sand at everything in the belief that contact dispels illusions. It doesn't. At least not automatically and universally. As written, some illusions are dismissed by disbelieving contact. Some specify that they are dispelled [I]unless the caster can make the illusion react appropriately[/I]. Question: What's the appropriate reaction for an illusion of a stone wall when someone touches it or throws sand at it? Answer: To stand there and do nothing, just like a real stone wall would. Question: What is the appropriate reaction for an illusion of a cloud of fog, or a [I]Darkness[/I] effect, when someone touches or throws sand at it? Answer: To stand there and do nothing, just like a real cloud of fog or field of [I]Darkness[/I] would. Question: Can an Illusion of a Bridge carry believing people across a chasm? Answer: Unless the spell contains some percentage of "real" component, the answer is no. And the one thing we can all be certain of is that someone will disagree with every single point I've made. :) [/QUOTE]

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