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<blockquote data-quote="roguerouge" data-source="post: 5073065" data-attributes="member: 13855">The idea for history would be that you would be incorporating the history of the region or nation in the iconography and symbolism of your architecture. Probably knowledge nature would be necessary for where to get the variety of ingredients and their quality as raw resources. Appraise was included so that you don't get scammed on the art work at the center of the cathedral project: one evaluates the monetary worth of things with that skill. (&quot;Trust me, my lord, this is fine Corinthian leather!&quot; &quot;That stained glass window with the nude baby Pelor? It's cutting edge, milord!&quot;)Some of the craft skills might be lowered to 15 or 20, based on the parts that we're talking about, such as the church bell. (So add craft metalworking to the list.)That's a bit of a straw man. The OP wanted his PARTY to build a cathedral, i.e. design it and get it built. Cathedrals required armies of grunt manpower but also a wide variety of skilled experts in various fields to design. No, not every laborer has to be a renaissance man; yes, the design TEAM should have a wide variety of requisite skills necessary to build a monument for the ages. My argument is that while spells can stand in for the gathering of raw materials and the grunt work, the design mojo and craftsmanship has to come from skills. (And I'm not convinced that moment of prescience would work with craft skills at all, as the checks represent cumulative effort and many decisions, not an &quot;aha! moment&quot;.)We agree on more than you think though. Certainly, the PCs can and should be able to use people skills to assemble a crack team. But if THEY BUILD IT then they need to make at least some of the checks themselves.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="roguerouge, post: 5073065, member: 13855"] The idea for history would be that you would be incorporating the history of the region or nation in the iconography and symbolism of your architecture. Probably knowledge nature would be necessary for where to get the variety of ingredients and their quality as raw resources. Appraise was included so that you don't get scammed on the art work at the center of the cathedral project: one evaluates the monetary worth of things with that skill. ("Trust me, my lord, this is fine Corinthian leather!" "That stained glass window with the nude baby Pelor? It's cutting edge, milord!") Some of the craft skills might be lowered to 15 or 20, based on the parts that we're talking about, such as the church bell. (So add craft metalworking to the list.) That's a bit of a straw man. The OP wanted his PARTY to build a cathedral, i.e. design it and get it built. Cathedrals required armies of grunt manpower but also a wide variety of skilled experts in various fields to design. No, not every laborer has to be a renaissance man; yes, the design TEAM should have a wide variety of requisite skills necessary to build a monument for the ages. My argument is that while spells can stand in for the gathering of raw materials and the grunt work, the design mojo and craftsmanship has to come from skills. (And I'm not convinced that moment of prescience would work with craft skills at all, as the checks represent cumulative effort and many decisions, not an "aha! moment".) We agree on more than you think though. Certainly, the PCs can and should be able to use people skills to assemble a crack team. But if THEY BUILD IT then they need to make at least some of the checks themselves. [/QUOTE]

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