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How fun are warlocks?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6609200" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Forewarning: I don't really have play experience with "5e proper." I played a late-in-the-cycle playtest game (level 8, IIRC), but we had no warlock in the party. So...this is mostly looking at things from an analytical standpoint, rather than a feel standpoint.</p><p></p><p>1: "Stuck" as pure damage?</p><p>In short: Technically, no, warlocks are not "stuck" in a "pure-damage role." They can, depending on how you build them, also do other things, but it is complex to express how and why. Built carefully, a Warlock can be mediocre-to-adequate at combat and very good at certain kinds of non-combat things.</p><p></p><p>In long: Warlocks have unusually strong cantrip damage, well beyond essentially all other casters. They need this because, until you reach a very high level, on average you will have <em>less than one spell per combat</em> for a typical day (6-8 encounters, 2-3 short rests). In effect, Warlocks "aren't really casters." I mean, they have a full casting progression because of the Mystic Arcana stuff, but their spells really aren't intended to be the "meat" of the class, but rather a special extra thing layered on top of their more "reliable" tools (cantrips and at-will spells via invocations). The invocations may SEEM like they aren't much, but they are really the core of the class: invocations are how you maintain your 'focus' on whatever pact/build you've chosen, since both "blasting" Warlocks and Blade Warlocks have specific invocations they need to pick up to remain viable in the long-term (Blade in particular requires some relatively significant optimization, from what others with more play-experience have told me.)</p><p></p><p>The Tome pact, on the other hand, has an invocation that gets you (essentially) the ritual equivalent of the Lore Bard's "take a spell from any class" feature. Rituals can give you an awful lot of non-combat utility, and the Tome Warlock has the best access to rituals in the game (no one else can "steal" rituals from other classes' spell lists), and (AFAIK?) no one can copy ritual spells regardless of origin, if they find a scroll for it. Then, you can add onto this with the various "no cost, at will" *and repeatable* invocations, and can get some interesting stuff. Self-levitation (Ascendant Step), animal-talking (Beast Speech), ability to read ALL writing without any exception for coding or language (Eyes of the Rune Keeper), permanent self-disguise (Mask of Many Faces), at-will Alter Self (Master of Myriad Forms), a certain amount of stealthing (One with Shadows), and some other stuff as well. But you only get 8 in total, and more than half (5) by 9th level. Combine the special ritual stuff with a handful of potentially-potent at-will magic effects, and you have someone who can pull out a number of tricks, some quickly and some slowly. In a sense, the Tome Warlock is the ultimate "charlatan" magician: they don't have much "raw power," but they can be, if you'll pardon the pun, tricky devils.</p><p></p><p>2: Well, uh, enjoyment is in the eye of the beholder, so I cannot rightfully answer that question. Some people think it's great. Other people have found it frustrating and boring, because they came in expecting to be a spell-flinging fiend. The Warlock must, to a certain extent, 'shepherd' her spells, save them for when they're really "needed" and "useful" rather than expecting to use them frequently. If you are expecting to be, or feel like, a spell-slinger--the Warlock is probably not for you.</p><p></p><p>3: Useless? Eh, probably not. Hex is good, but I dunno if it's so good as to be VITAL for anyone who isn't a Blade Warlock. There's some talk, here and there, about making a custom invocation (or just a Blade pact feature) that modifies Hex so it is more friendly to being a melee combatant, and is default for Blades (who really do need it, apparently).</p><p></p><p>All of that said? I don't personally like the design of the Warlock. It requires far too much system mastery (half the invocations are crap--never take an invocation that gets you a once-per-day spell!); it has too many "optional" elements that should be built into particular subclasses (for example, the invocations that require a particular Pact should just be PART of that pact, IMO); and its power is much, much too dependent on DM whim than I will ever be okay with, particularly when DMs in general at least have a *reputation* for being stingy about rests (and, in general, the consensus seems to be 0-2 short rests per day, which is one to two less than the designers planned for).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6609200, member: 6790260"] Forewarning: I don't really have play experience with "5e proper." I played a late-in-the-cycle playtest game (level 8, IIRC), but we had no warlock in the party. So...this is mostly looking at things from an analytical standpoint, rather than a feel standpoint. 1: "Stuck" as pure damage? In short: Technically, no, warlocks are not "stuck" in a "pure-damage role." They can, depending on how you build them, also do other things, but it is complex to express how and why. Built carefully, a Warlock can be mediocre-to-adequate at combat and very good at certain kinds of non-combat things. In long: Warlocks have unusually strong cantrip damage, well beyond essentially all other casters. They need this because, until you reach a very high level, on average you will have [I]less than one spell per combat[/I] for a typical day (6-8 encounters, 2-3 short rests). In effect, Warlocks "aren't really casters." I mean, they have a full casting progression because of the Mystic Arcana stuff, but their spells really aren't intended to be the "meat" of the class, but rather a special extra thing layered on top of their more "reliable" tools (cantrips and at-will spells via invocations). The invocations may SEEM like they aren't much, but they are really the core of the class: invocations are how you maintain your 'focus' on whatever pact/build you've chosen, since both "blasting" Warlocks and Blade Warlocks have specific invocations they need to pick up to remain viable in the long-term (Blade in particular requires some relatively significant optimization, from what others with more play-experience have told me.) The Tome pact, on the other hand, has an invocation that gets you (essentially) the ritual equivalent of the Lore Bard's "take a spell from any class" feature. Rituals can give you an awful lot of non-combat utility, and the Tome Warlock has the best access to rituals in the game (no one else can "steal" rituals from other classes' spell lists), and (AFAIK?) no one can copy ritual spells regardless of origin, if they find a scroll for it. Then, you can add onto this with the various "no cost, at will" *and repeatable* invocations, and can get some interesting stuff. Self-levitation (Ascendant Step), animal-talking (Beast Speech), ability to read ALL writing without any exception for coding or language (Eyes of the Rune Keeper), permanent self-disguise (Mask of Many Faces), at-will Alter Self (Master of Myriad Forms), a certain amount of stealthing (One with Shadows), and some other stuff as well. But you only get 8 in total, and more than half (5) by 9th level. Combine the special ritual stuff with a handful of potentially-potent at-will magic effects, and you have someone who can pull out a number of tricks, some quickly and some slowly. In a sense, the Tome Warlock is the ultimate "charlatan" magician: they don't have much "raw power," but they can be, if you'll pardon the pun, tricky devils. 2: Well, uh, enjoyment is in the eye of the beholder, so I cannot rightfully answer that question. Some people think it's great. Other people have found it frustrating and boring, because they came in expecting to be a spell-flinging fiend. The Warlock must, to a certain extent, 'shepherd' her spells, save them for when they're really "needed" and "useful" rather than expecting to use them frequently. If you are expecting to be, or feel like, a spell-slinger--the Warlock is probably not for you. 3: Useless? Eh, probably not. Hex is good, but I dunno if it's so good as to be VITAL for anyone who isn't a Blade Warlock. There's some talk, here and there, about making a custom invocation (or just a Blade pact feature) that modifies Hex so it is more friendly to being a melee combatant, and is default for Blades (who really do need it, apparently). All of that said? I don't personally like the design of the Warlock. It requires far too much system mastery (half the invocations are crap--never take an invocation that gets you a once-per-day spell!); it has too many "optional" elements that should be built into particular subclasses (for example, the invocations that require a particular Pact should just be PART of that pact, IMO); and its power is much, much too dependent on DM whim than I will ever be okay with, particularly when DMs in general at least have a *reputation* for being stingy about rests (and, in general, the consensus seems to be 0-2 short rests per day, which is one to two less than the designers planned for). [/QUOTE]
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