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How good is the new MM? (Thread split)
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5431131" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Although what you say is true eventually, I was curious whether it is true shortly after level 1 like you claim.</p><p></p><p>So, I did an analysis of one of my LEB PBP games where I am DM and have each round of attacks recorded.</p><p></p><p>These are PCs that are level 4 in the first few encounter, level 5 in the middle encounters, and level 6 or 7 in the last set of encounters (PBP levels about 3 times faster than a table game).</p><p></p><p>I listed damage as: L = Light damage, 1 to 10 hit points, M = Moderate damage, 11 to 20 hit points, H = Heavy damage, 21+ hit points</p><p></p><p>I assumed a 19 or 20 starting Int Wizard with a +2 implement (at level 4 in LEB, +2 implements and weapons are the rule instead of the exception) or 9 MM hit points of damage (i.e. single digit damage). When one looks at foes for which it can be determined (i.e. the foe was bloodied and either killed without being in single digits, or not yet killed while being in single digits), a very high percentage of those monsters end up with hit points in the single digit range.</p><p></p><p>15 bloodied monsters in single digits (it happened twice for one monster)</p><p>16 bloodied monsters not in single digits</p><p>16 monsters never bloodied without instantly dying or fleeing</p><p></p><p>For this set of 9 encounters (one of which ended way prematurely due to negotiations), nearly half (48%) of the bloodied monsters ended up in single digits. And, it happened in every single encounter (with the exception of the one that ended early).</p><p></p><p>Granted, the Wizard doesn't know that the monster is definitively in single digits, nor might it be the Wizard's turn to attack.</p><p></p><p>But one can definitely see patterns (i.e. hit once medium or hard after bloodied, the monster is often in single digits). And, nothing stops the player of the Wizard from calling another player off when he thinks he can one shot a monster (or the other player missing and the Wizard still one shotting the monster).</p><p></p><p>I think that your opinion that Magic Missile becomes less relevant shortly after first level is in error. The data doesn't support that POV.</p><p></p><p>And there is a mathematical reason for this. The number of hit points that a foe has before being killed by any PC is between 1 and max possible damage for the party. On average, it will be average damage for a party. At low level, party average (non-striker) damage will be about 10 points at level one (especially at the end of a fight when everyone is using At Will powers) and about 14 at level six. The odds of the foe being in single hit points for the last killing blow are reasonable high. Striker damage raises the average party damage, so that is why it is happening about half of the time in the data and not more often.</p><p></p><p>You are saying "Hey, first level, MM is 25% of damage, second level, MM is 20% of damage, therefore, the odds of single damage one shotting significantly decreases". Total hit points are not the numbers that are important. The important numbers are: when a foe is bloodied and hit once or twice afterwards, how hard were they hit? If they are bloodied and hit hard after being bloodied, the odds of them going into single hit points are pretty darn high.</p><p></p><p>Will a foe go into single digit hit points after getting hit once or twice after being blooded every time? Nope. It just happens quite often. The Wizard has a very good clue as to the state of his foes and when to use Magic Missile and when not to.</p><p></p><p>And, since the DPR of Magic Missile will be similar to other single target At Will powers at low to mid-heroic, it's often good to just use it on the last few foes in an encounter every single round anyway. It doesn't matter too much if the Fighter hits the bloodied foe and then the Wizard one shots him, or the Wizard hits the foe and then the Fighter one shots him.</p><p></p><p>Unlike your earlier claim, it's not that rare for NPCs to be in single hit point ranges and with the damage clues for the NPCs before they are bloodied and after they are bloodied, it's not that hard for a player to be right about whether the foe is in single hit points or not.</p><p></p><p>Early on in an encounter when there are more foes and more opportunities to use Encounter Powers and more opportunities to use area effect powers, the Wizard should concentrate on using those powers with harm/hinder the most number of foes. In the second half of the encounter, Wizards should concentrate on one shotting foes unless a multi-foe opportunity arises. At low level, one of the best ways to one shot a foe if the player of the Wizard is paying attention to what type of damage bloodied foes are taking is Magic Missile. Played intelligently, this can save party resources more often than using a different single target At Will power. Sometimes, a different power is better. The Wizard should use a different power when it appears to be better. But, Magic Missile is often the power of choice in many circumstances in the latter part of an encounter.</p><p></p><p>[code]</p><p>1 HHBLMM, 1 hit point remaining</p><p>2 MMBH, dead</p><p>3 Fled before determination</p><p>4 LMHBH, dead</p><p>5 LLHBM, 4 hit points remaining</p><p>6 LLMBM, 5 hit points remaining</p><p></p><p>7 Solo, hit 7 times, not bloodied, combat ended before determination</p><p></p><p>8 Fled before determination</p><p>9 LMMBHM, 5 hit points remaining</p><p>10 LMLBHM, 4 hit points remaining</p><p></p><p>11 M same PC same turn HM, dead</p><p>12 LLLBH, dead</p><p>13 MMBM, 1 hit point remaining</p><p>14 MLBM, 8 hit points remaining</p><p>15 MMBH, dead</p><p>16 LMBLM, dead</p><p>17 LLLBH, dead</p><p>18 MLLBH, dead</p><p>19 MHBM, dead</p><p>20 MLBL, 9 hit points remaining</p><p></p><p>21 MMB, 9 hit points remaining</p><p>22 LHBH, dead</p><p>23 MMBH, dead</p><p>24 MLBM, 3 hit points remaining</p><p>25 HBM, 2 hit points remaining</p><p>26 LLMBM, dead</p><p>27 HH, dead</p><p>28 LLMBH, dead</p><p>29 Fled before determination</p><p></p><p>30 MLHB, 9 hit points remaining</p><p>31 MHBMH, dead</p><p>32 HLBM, 8 hit points remaining</p><p>33 natural 20 on zombie</p><p></p><p>34 Fled before determination</p><p>35 LMMHBM, 2 hit points remaining, raised back up, BMML, 1 hit point remaining</p><p>36 HMMBLMH, dead</p><p></p><p>37 Combat ended before determination</p><p>38 Combat ended before determination</p><p>39 Combat ended before determination</p><p>40 Combat ended before determination</p><p>41 Combat ended before determination</p><p>42 MLHBMHH, dead</p><p>43 Combat ended before determination</p><p>44 Combat ended before determination</p><p></p><p>45 MMMMBMM, dead</p><p>46 MLLBMM, 8 hit points remaining</p><p>47 Fled before determination</p><p>[/code]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5431131, member: 2011"] Although what you say is true eventually, I was curious whether it is true shortly after level 1 like you claim. So, I did an analysis of one of my LEB PBP games where I am DM and have each round of attacks recorded. These are PCs that are level 4 in the first few encounter, level 5 in the middle encounters, and level 6 or 7 in the last set of encounters (PBP levels about 3 times faster than a table game). I listed damage as: L = Light damage, 1 to 10 hit points, M = Moderate damage, 11 to 20 hit points, H = Heavy damage, 21+ hit points I assumed a 19 or 20 starting Int Wizard with a +2 implement (at level 4 in LEB, +2 implements and weapons are the rule instead of the exception) or 9 MM hit points of damage (i.e. single digit damage). When one looks at foes for which it can be determined (i.e. the foe was bloodied and either killed without being in single digits, or not yet killed while being in single digits), a very high percentage of those monsters end up with hit points in the single digit range. 15 bloodied monsters in single digits (it happened twice for one monster) 16 bloodied monsters not in single digits 16 monsters never bloodied without instantly dying or fleeing For this set of 9 encounters (one of which ended way prematurely due to negotiations), nearly half (48%) of the bloodied monsters ended up in single digits. And, it happened in every single encounter (with the exception of the one that ended early). Granted, the Wizard doesn't know that the monster is definitively in single digits, nor might it be the Wizard's turn to attack. But one can definitely see patterns (i.e. hit once medium or hard after bloodied, the monster is often in single digits). And, nothing stops the player of the Wizard from calling another player off when he thinks he can one shot a monster (or the other player missing and the Wizard still one shotting the monster). I think that your opinion that Magic Missile becomes less relevant shortly after first level is in error. The data doesn't support that POV. And there is a mathematical reason for this. The number of hit points that a foe has before being killed by any PC is between 1 and max possible damage for the party. On average, it will be average damage for a party. At low level, party average (non-striker) damage will be about 10 points at level one (especially at the end of a fight when everyone is using At Will powers) and about 14 at level six. The odds of the foe being in single hit points for the last killing blow are reasonable high. Striker damage raises the average party damage, so that is why it is happening about half of the time in the data and not more often. You are saying "Hey, first level, MM is 25% of damage, second level, MM is 20% of damage, therefore, the odds of single damage one shotting significantly decreases". Total hit points are not the numbers that are important. The important numbers are: when a foe is bloodied and hit once or twice afterwards, how hard were they hit? If they are bloodied and hit hard after being bloodied, the odds of them going into single hit points are pretty darn high. Will a foe go into single digit hit points after getting hit once or twice after being blooded every time? Nope. It just happens quite often. The Wizard has a very good clue as to the state of his foes and when to use Magic Missile and when not to. And, since the DPR of Magic Missile will be similar to other single target At Will powers at low to mid-heroic, it's often good to just use it on the last few foes in an encounter every single round anyway. It doesn't matter too much if the Fighter hits the bloodied foe and then the Wizard one shots him, or the Wizard hits the foe and then the Fighter one shots him. Unlike your earlier claim, it's not that rare for NPCs to be in single hit point ranges and with the damage clues for the NPCs before they are bloodied and after they are bloodied, it's not that hard for a player to be right about whether the foe is in single hit points or not. Early on in an encounter when there are more foes and more opportunities to use Encounter Powers and more opportunities to use area effect powers, the Wizard should concentrate on using those powers with harm/hinder the most number of foes. In the second half of the encounter, Wizards should concentrate on one shotting foes unless a multi-foe opportunity arises. At low level, one of the best ways to one shot a foe if the player of the Wizard is paying attention to what type of damage bloodied foes are taking is Magic Missile. Played intelligently, this can save party resources more often than using a different single target At Will power. Sometimes, a different power is better. The Wizard should use a different power when it appears to be better. But, Magic Missile is often the power of choice in many circumstances in the latter part of an encounter. [code] 1 HHBLMM, 1 hit point remaining 2 MMBH, dead 3 Fled before determination 4 LMHBH, dead 5 LLHBM, 4 hit points remaining 6 LLMBM, 5 hit points remaining 7 Solo, hit 7 times, not bloodied, combat ended before determination 8 Fled before determination 9 LMMBHM, 5 hit points remaining 10 LMLBHM, 4 hit points remaining 11 M same PC same turn HM, dead 12 LLLBH, dead 13 MMBM, 1 hit point remaining 14 MLBM, 8 hit points remaining 15 MMBH, dead 16 LMBLM, dead 17 LLLBH, dead 18 MLLBH, dead 19 MHBM, dead 20 MLBL, 9 hit points remaining 21 MMB, 9 hit points remaining 22 LHBH, dead 23 MMBH, dead 24 MLBM, 3 hit points remaining 25 HBM, 2 hit points remaining 26 LLMBM, dead 27 HH, dead 28 LLMBH, dead 29 Fled before determination 30 MLHB, 9 hit points remaining 31 MHBMH, dead 32 HLBM, 8 hit points remaining 33 natural 20 on zombie 34 Fled before determination 35 LMMHBM, 2 hit points remaining, raised back up, BMML, 1 hit point remaining 36 HMMBLMH, dead 37 Combat ended before determination 38 Combat ended before determination 39 Combat ended before determination 40 Combat ended before determination 41 Combat ended before determination 42 MLHBMHH, dead 43 Combat ended before determination 44 Combat ended before determination 45 MMMMBMM, dead 46 MLLBMM, 8 hit points remaining 47 Fled before determination [/code] [/QUOTE]
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