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<blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5432832" data-attributes="member: 78116"><p>You know, I'm going to have to back up Abdul here and say that in my experience this is exactly true. The amount of difference the most simple bonus in the game, combat advantage makes in a variety of situations is immense. Combat advantage and the -2 penalty from a mark are the two most game changing bonuses in 4E. They have enabled or saved more hits than I can possibly count. Certainly not every round, but every single encounter? I can't think of an encounter where it <em>hasn't</em> mattered at least once. Or for that matter where it would have mattered in the case of the fighter in my epic tier game with uncanny dodge. They are so common their effect on an encounter is bound to actually matter, so your argument is simply flat out absurd.</p><p></p><p>For someone who complained about being insulted you really haven't done your argument any service by claiming he is being disingenuous or lying. Especially because I can firmly say that my experience exactly matches his with this point. </p><p></p><p>I don't mean to bring in a Argumentum ad populum fallacy into this, but everyone else who has responded in the thread has firmly disagreed with your views. Perhaps the exception in the argument is you and not everyone who has disagreed with you?</p><p></p><p>Which ends its turn, preventing the potential use of move, minor and other attacks that round. If you make it charge just to get an attack in, then you have won. Especially because the vast majority of monsters with double or triple attack standard actions cannot use them on a MBA. Get a solo monster to have to charge you and you just prevented three attacks. That's not parity <em>that's huge</em>.</p><p></p><p>This is again the <em>absolute</em> definition of control in 4th edition. Making a monster do something <em>it did not want to do on its turn</em>.</p><p></p><p>This is the worst example you could pick, because Avengers have ridiculous defenses and are secondary defenders. The monster not attacking the <em>leader</em> and instead going for one of the <em>highest AC strikers</em> in the game <em>is a victory for the PCs</em>. By forcing the monster to attack the avenger, you know I'm not going to repeat myself but you know who I think won that battle. It's not the monster.</p><p></p><p>Except that's what a controller does. That's not parity, that's being a good controller.</p><p></p><p>I have to disagree with you, because I see those bonuses make huge differences consistently. You can read my thread on my games to see how often I note down where those bonuses made such a huge impact. Or how simple mistakes one round can add up to a dramatic battle (My dark sun game with the Silk Wyrm as a key example).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aegeri, post: 5432832, member: 78116"] You know, I'm going to have to back up Abdul here and say that in my experience this is exactly true. The amount of difference the most simple bonus in the game, combat advantage makes in a variety of situations is immense. Combat advantage and the -2 penalty from a mark are the two most game changing bonuses in 4E. They have enabled or saved more hits than I can possibly count. Certainly not every round, but every single encounter? I can't think of an encounter where it [I]hasn't[/I] mattered at least once. Or for that matter where it would have mattered in the case of the fighter in my epic tier game with uncanny dodge. They are so common their effect on an encounter is bound to actually matter, so your argument is simply flat out absurd. For someone who complained about being insulted you really haven't done your argument any service by claiming he is being disingenuous or lying. Especially because I can firmly say that my experience exactly matches his with this point. I don't mean to bring in a Argumentum ad populum fallacy into this, but everyone else who has responded in the thread has firmly disagreed with your views. Perhaps the exception in the argument is you and not everyone who has disagreed with you? Which ends its turn, preventing the potential use of move, minor and other attacks that round. If you make it charge just to get an attack in, then you have won. Especially because the vast majority of monsters with double or triple attack standard actions cannot use them on a MBA. Get a solo monster to have to charge you and you just prevented three attacks. That's not parity [i]that's huge[/i]. This is again the [I]absolute[/I] definition of control in 4th edition. Making a monster do something [I]it did not want to do on its turn[/I]. This is the worst example you could pick, because Avengers have ridiculous defenses and are secondary defenders. The monster not attacking the [I]leader[/I] and instead going for one of the [I]highest AC strikers[/I] in the game [I]is a victory for the PCs[/I]. By forcing the monster to attack the avenger, you know I'm not going to repeat myself but you know who I think won that battle. It's not the monster. Except that's what a controller does. That's not parity, that's being a good controller. I have to disagree with you, because I see those bonuses make huge differences consistently. You can read my thread on my games to see how often I note down where those bonuses made such a huge impact. Or how simple mistakes one round can add up to a dramatic battle (My dark sun game with the Silk Wyrm as a key example). [/QUOTE]
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