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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8576347" data-attributes="member: 93670">You are missing a few important details regarding how the discussion started and what was being discussed when his Thorin example came up.  To be blunt, at no point has it ever been about vetting REMATHALIS'S character or hashing it out into an acceptable form for my games.  Not even <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/how-has-d-d-changed-over-the-decades.686433/post-8574356" target="_blank">the post</a> where I was explaining problems with the character was about hashing out REMATHALIS'S character.  I can see how you'd be mistaken in assuming otherwise given how in <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/how-has-d-d-changed-over-the-decades.686433/post-8576030" target="_blank">1213</a> REMATHALIS seems to be lamenting that nobody is making an attempt to hash out a workable character with a hostile player in a thread about how d&d has changed over the decades.  If you go back to <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/how-has-d-d-changed-over-the-decades.686433/post-8574169" target="_blank">1091</a> you can see that the discussion going on when REMATHALIS quoted it  &asked about thorin in 1092 the discussion was about tools that GMs used to be able to rely on to stroke the lizard brain to incentivize cooperation & interest from players.You would think that simply saying "this is an $specificSetting game" is all a GM would need to say to ensure that there is at least some shred of an attempt at ensuring characters & their backstories fit that particular setting & any mistakes there could be easily corrected with statements along the lines of[spoiler="these"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">" I tend to use dragons more like eberron's dragons & this conflicts."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Most of my games take place in eberron, this is kind of an FRism, it's not going to be goblin tribes because they have <a href="https://keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-goblins/" target="_blank">real problems</a>."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"There may have been a keep razed by someone during the last war, but it's going to be someone thatmakes narrative sense given the location"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">" It would probably be a good idea to regularly be on the lookout for ways you could proactively say things like "this group of karrnathi bandits seems to have some military ties from what it sounds like, is it possible they were related to the soldiers who seized my ancestral keep?" & "hey bossnpc/patron who hired us, do you have any dealings near my ancestral keep that need attention from folks like us?"</li> </ul>[/spoiler]Except that was not the case where simply saying X is the setting is enough.  The very idea that a GM might engage in that sort of shaping over a character's backstory was so heretical that there were vows of being a murderhobo who cares nothing for the world.  I mentioned earlier that I've seen people bring up thorin & other Tolkein inspired dwarves for my eberron games many times over the years, the reaction is rarely one of mea culpa & a good faith effort to learn about the setting or reshape their initial plans in a way that fits acceptably. Typically the reaction is to dig in & disruptively make efforts to shovel it onto newer more conflict averse players.** I've literally seen one of these players jump in after I explained something about the place of giants in eberron's ancient history & the much more recent dwarven arrivals to some other player who was not them with "no that's not right, the dwarves were the first race & then giants came along & got language from them so the giant language uses dwarven runes not draconic ones" in a jaw dropping example of how deeply entrenched the mindset of players who demand total control over the worldbuilding they do with their "backstory" often seems to be.edit: Just because [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] was unsure if [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] did things he didn't do REMATHALIS is substituted in place of pronouns</blockquote>

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