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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8577405" data-attributes="member: 93670">My experience as well.  I think the only TPK I had in 3.x involved a good bit of barely legal drinking, players would be thinking tactically & planning ahead so were primed & already trying to run like hell if it looked like things were heading in a direction towards going south.  In 5e I've had a couple with a regular group  and countless with open AL tables at a flgs. In all cases with 5e the players took it as a shock that it was even possible [spoiler="and usually turned back at blaming the gm"][MEDIA=youtube]2ONqZ8Mxweo:198[/MEDIA][/spoiler]I've seen that kind of That hyper cautious tomb of horrors style quare poking pixel scrubbing/save scumming analog referred to similarly in the past but I was speaking in terms of combat & possibly even creative use of abilities like [USER=6794067]@Baron Opal II[/USER] mentioned in 1322.  In 3.x terms it would be things likebeefier crunchier & squishier types communicating towards engaging in  coordinated efforts to maximize each other's strengths & mitigate each other's weaknesses.  Often this included discission over positioning (de)buff control etc & general planning.  I. Modern d&d I too often see characters built in order to do those things desperately trying to get others to cooperate enough just to use their group assisting thing.  In 5e:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I regularly see players excited about having the fighting style that  allows them to add their shield to an ally within 5 feet desperately trying to remind players to stay within 5 feet so they can shield them & being snubbed even though the opportunity cost of doing so is regularly zero.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fairly often I see artillerists desperately trying to remind players that their heal turret has a 15ft move speed & if anyone is within x feet of it they can pulse the temphp thing every single round only to have the thing spend most if not all of the fight chasing after "allies" who refused to allow the artillerist to help them by simply moving more slowly or letting enemies come to them a bit (I forget how many feet right now).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rarely are players willing to work with a caster trying to cast Web vision obscuring spells & so on in order to maximize those spells or communicate why they think it's a bad plan to use it that way.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">players simply solo near each other & expect everything to work out fine </li> </ul></blockquote>

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