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Message: <blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8582666" data-attributes="member: 86653">LOL. Uh...we must have had wildly different experiences playing AD&D, then.Partially true.Sure, but those speedbumps added up over time. Remember, in AD&D you healed 1 hp per day. Unless the PCs are swimming in spell slots or magic items, they're not going to be gleefully charging into combat constantly.Wow. Again, wildly different experiences, then. No resources? So zero spells cast. Zero hp lost. Zero consumables used? Not really, no. You certainly could avoid a combat by playing smart, but once the combat happened, "roll initiative" it was on.But there's an interesting bit you left off. Number appearing. The assumption isn't that you'd face a single ogre. The no. appearing for ogres is 2d10. That's when they become a threat. Your party of 5-6 is now staring at a warband of ogres. Now they're a threat.The MM1 ogre has 4d8+1 hit points...which averages 19 hp. Doesn't mean that's what they get. The ogre deals 1d10 damage or by weapon. So what do we learn about the monster from those stats? Facing off against one is a mild inconvenience for a 1st-level party of four. But fighting it could be anywhere from a cakewalk to a TPK depending on the dice. Facing off against the average or higher end of that 2-20? Yeah, run.And remind me how quickly hp recovers in AD&D...1 hp per day of rest. So even one hit leaves a lasting impression. And how many hours of meditation, prayer, study does it take to recoup a used spell...from 15 min/level for magic-users to "a few hours" for clerics.LOL. Really? An ogre is a threat? To whom? People with sensitive noses?AC11. HP 59. CR2. Greatclub +6 to-hit, 5ft reach, 2d8+4 damage, or; Javelin +6 to-hit, 30/120 ft range, 2d6+4 damage.So a PC with +0 to-hit has a 50% chance to connect...and most 1st-level PCs are rocking +5-6 to-hit, so they have a 75-80% to-hit.A 1st-level party of four can pump out 60 damage in what...a round...a round-and-a-half. Let's see fighter with +3 damage rolling 2d6 for that greatsword...averages 10 damage per hit. The rogue is rocking +3 damage and rolling 1d6 or 1d8...plus 1d6 with sneak attack...averages 10-11 damage per hit. The cleric is launching Sacred Flame or Toll the Dead...an infinite number of times...save DC13 vs DEX or WIS...of an ogre...so -1 or -2...so it's taking 1d8 or 1d12...averages about 5.5 per hit. Who's left? The wizard is rocking the same baseline +3 to main stat as everyone else...and launching a Fire Bolt for 1d10...averages 5.5 per hit. So assuming no crits...in one round that basic party puts out an average of 31 damage. So exactly two rounds. And all with 75-80% chance to hit. Let's say with some misses that's two-and-a-half rounds.How much damage can the ogre put out in that time? Depends on initiative. It's not likely to go first, so it will get at least one attack off before it dies. Maybe two if it's lucky. Let's say two attacks. It lands smack in the middle of initiative. So first round, if it hits, does an average of 11 damage. Wow. That's so much. And on round two, if it hits, does an average of 11 damage. So 22 damage...then it dies. Now what effect does 22 damage, likely to two targets do? Knocks them to 0 hp and makes them roll death saves. There's a cleric in the party. Healing Word as a bonus action so not miss out on killing the ogre, or spare the dying if the ogre's already dead on round two, or someone with a healer's kit (plus or minus the Healer feat).So what are the short term problems the PCs have to deal with? Down maybe a Hit Dice, one spell slot, and 1-2 healer's kit uses...at worst. And all that comes back tomorrow. Except the healer's kit uses...which cost 5gp for 10 uses. So nothing, basically. No consequences. No bad stuff. Certainly not anything that lasts. And unless the players are intentionally letting someone die, no one will die. Even if the DM targets one PC...the ogre gets two attacks before it dies. Unless the PC is incredibly unlucky, they live.You're missing my point. It's not about wanting to whack a PC. It's about playing a game that's not so wildly balanced in favor of the PCs. It's not interesting because everything is a foregone conclusion. There's no chance. No randomness. No luck. No skill. The PCs simply win, unless the DM becomes adversarial and stacks the deck against them. I think that's bad.</blockquote>

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