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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8583594" data-attributes="member: 7026617">I was referrring to your horror response.See above.&nbsp; The problem with the superhero thing you said was 1. It requires essentially discarding the level mechanism as used (been done before, see Mutants and Masterminds), 2. It assumes a character class system without immensely more adjustment works (it doesn't; superheroes are far more idiosyncratic and in some cases don't fit any obvious archetype you're going to put together unless they're so broad it brings into question what purpose the &quot;class&quot; is serving) 3. Assumes gear in the sense D&amp;D and most games use it is relevant (again, not; gear is a framework for super powers, nothing more; among other things money isn't relevant except for an occasional plot device.&nbsp; It can be used as an explanation for powers, but someone with a lot of money doesn't end up with any more capability intrinsically than someone with almost none). 4. It brings into stark contrast the fundamental incoherence of the D&amp;D hit point model from day one (there's some degree of abstraction in how people take damage, but for most its related to either how much damage you do or how accurate you are, not both, and yes, some people are outright invulnerable to some opponents, and its not like its uncommon (barring his locating a superweapon or tricking him into a trap, the Punisher's skill is pretty much irrelevant when fighting the Hulk).There's more, but that's just a starter.&nbsp; D&amp;D has failures anytime you get away from a D&amp;D like experience, and with some the failures are stark and frequent.&nbsp; Its not a surprise that the only D20 based superhero game moved progressively farther away from D&amp;D's design, and even from the get-go discarded things like levels as D&amp;D treated them, or level elevating hit points.Optional rules are still optional.&nbsp; If you change the experience, yes it gets closer to what you need, but again, what a surprise.&nbsp; There's nothing about optional rules not the default that makes them any less changing the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 8583594, member: 7026617"] I was referrring to your horror response. See above. The problem with the superhero thing you said was 1. It requires essentially discarding the level mechanism as used (been done before, see Mutants and Masterminds), 2. It assumes a character class system without immensely more adjustment works (it doesn't; superheroes are far more idiosyncratic and in some cases don't fit any obvious archetype you're going to put together unless they're so broad it brings into question what purpose the "class" is serving) 3. Assumes gear in the sense D&D and most games use it is relevant (again, not; gear is a framework for super powers, nothing more; among other things money isn't relevant except for an occasional plot device. It can be used as an explanation for powers, but someone with a lot of money doesn't end up with any more capability intrinsically than someone with almost none). 4. It brings into stark contrast the fundamental incoherence of the D&D hit point model from day one (there's some degree of abstraction in how people take damage, but for most its related to either how much damage you do or how accurate you are, not both, and yes, some people are outright invulnerable to some opponents, and its not like its uncommon (barring his locating a superweapon or tricking him into a trap, the Punisher's skill is pretty much irrelevant when fighting the Hulk). There's more, but that's just a starter. D&D has failures anytime you get away from a D&D like experience, and with some the failures are stark and frequent. Its not a surprise that the only D20 based superhero game moved progressively farther away from D&D's design, and even from the get-go discarded things like levels as D&D treated them, or level elevating hit points. Optional rules are still optional. If you change the experience, yes it gets closer to what you need, but again, what a surprise. There's nothing about optional rules not the default that makes them any less changing the game. [/QUOTE]

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