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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8586472" data-attributes="member: 42582">I've played with a relatively stable group of of players for most of my adult life, and we had what 4e would call &quot;player-authored quests&quot; as part of our play back in the 90s playing Rolemaster. In fact I first did that sort of thing playing AD&amp;D in the second half of the 80s.In both cases it wasn't as thought-through as how I approach it now, and the systems were quite as robust in their support of it. But my personal experience has not been that players predominantly want to play FRPGs as a cooperative board game (which is not to deny that there are many such players in the world). And when I tried to run B/X or AD&amp;D in that style - ie somewhat by-the-book for those systems - I was terrible at it! So the change in D&amp;D, with 4e, to actually aim at supporting an approach closer to what I was familiar with was very noticeable to me.Perhaps. I think there's good reason to think that the gap between how 4e was presented and how it was played may have been as wide as (what I believe) to be that same gap in the case of AD&amp;D and B/X. (I don't have any evidence beyond hunch and conjecture to support my claims about what was going on in 1978 that you replied to - I'm just relying on my sense that the sale of AD&amp;D books was extending well beyond a hobby-store wargaming-type crowd.)On the other hand, I think there was probably much less of this sort of gap in the case of 2nd ed AD&amp;D- the system as presented encouraged the GM to use the full suite of tools (XP awards, treasure, presentation of situations, adjudication of action declarations) to control player behaviour and the outcomes of play, and this was the norm I encountered for D&amp;D play during the 90s and I still get the impression it is quite common. Personally I feel that that sort of play is probably more common than the boardgame/wargame style that the posters I've quoted at the top of this post describe; but I've got nothing but impressions (including my impression of who WotC targets 5e D&amp;D at) to underpin that feeling.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8586472, member: 42582"] I've played with a relatively stable group of of players for most of my adult life, and we had what 4e would call "player-authored quests" as part of our play back in the 90s playing Rolemaster. In fact I first did that sort of thing playing AD&D in the second half of the 80s. In both cases it wasn't as thought-through as how I approach it now, and the systems were quite as robust in their support of it. But my personal experience has not been that players predominantly want to play FRPGs as a cooperative board game (which is not to deny that there are many such players in the world). And when I tried to run B/X or AD&D in that style - ie somewhat by-the-book for those systems - I was terrible at it! So the change in D&D, with 4e, to actually aim at supporting an approach closer to what I was familiar with was very noticeable to me. Perhaps. I think there's good reason to think that the gap between how 4e was presented and how it was played may have been as wide as (what I believe) to be that same gap in the case of AD&D and B/X. (I don't have any evidence beyond hunch and conjecture to support my claims about what was going on in 1978 that you replied to - I'm just relying on my sense that the sale of AD&D books was extending well beyond a hobby-store wargaming-type crowd.) On the other hand, I think there was probably much less of this sort of gap in the case of 2nd ed AD&D- the system as presented encouraged the GM to use the full suite of tools (XP awards, treasure, presentation of situations, adjudication of action declarations) to control player behaviour and the outcomes of play, and this was the norm I encountered for D&D play during the 90s and I still get the impression it is quite common. Personally I feel that that sort of play is probably more common than the boardgame/wargame style that the posters I've quoted at the top of this post describe; but I've got nothing but impressions (including my impression of who WotC targets 5e D&D at) to underpin that feeling. [/QUOTE]

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