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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8598825" data-attributes="member: 42582">Reposting from upthread:So if we're doing all this connections and NPC stuff via freeform negotiation, then I guess my &quot;limit&quot; is when it gets silly. In my experience players don't like silliness either, and so it may be that they, not the GM, enforce the limit in the context of freeform negotiation.If &quot;disruptive&quot; means &quot;silly&quot;, then your second sentence is close to what I've written just above, except you're leaning more heavily on the GM whereas I see it as a group thing.What I'm still missing is what is going on with &quot;bypassing an obstacle&quot; (Remathilis) or a &quot;solution or shortcut to a problem that requires no forethought&quot; (Baron Opal II). What obstacles are being bypassed? What problems are being shortcutted?To get concrete: a situation arises in the game where it would be handy for the PCs to enter the mayor's house. Having the sister leave the side gate open counts as &quot;bypassing&quot; or &quot;shortcutting&quot;. Does climbing the wall with rope, or via a Levitate spell; or does having one PC sneak through a window then open the side gate for the others, count as bypassing or shortcutting?Or suppose a situation arises in the game where it would be handy for the PCs to have an audience with Her Ladyship. Having the cousin who is Her Ladyship's secretary write the meeting into her diary counts as &quot;bypassing&quot; or &quot;shortcutting&quot;. Does sending a polite request for an audience count as that too? Does hanging around at an upmarket coffeehouse waiting for Her Ladyship to turn up and then striking up a conversation count as bypassing or shortcutting?The way that I'm making sense of all this is that we're talking about scenarios where the GM has contrived a situation, and the players are expected to puzzle it out in some fashion, and having a familial or social contact is too much like cutting the Gordian knot. But is that what's going on in others' minds too?What hasn't been discussed, but to me seems the bigger deal, is this: only the thief (let's say) can climb the wall or sneak through the window, but anyone can have a sister; only the bard (let's say) can write a polite note or hang out at upmarket coffeehouses, but anyone can have a cousin;, so we have some sort of possible infringement of niche/spotlight protection. Is that another thing that in others' minds though they haven't posted about it.?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8598825, member: 42582"] Reposting from upthread: So if we're doing all this connections and NPC stuff via freeform negotiation, then I guess my "limit" is when it gets silly. In my experience players don't like silliness either, and so it may be that they, not the GM, enforce the limit in the context of freeform negotiation. If "disruptive" means "silly", then your second sentence is close to what I've written just above, except you're leaning more heavily on the GM whereas I see it as a group thing. What I'm still missing is what is going on with "bypassing an obstacle" (Remathilis) or a "solution or shortcut to a problem that requires no forethought" (Baron Opal II). What obstacles are being bypassed? What problems are being shortcutted? To get concrete: a situation arises in the game where it would be handy for the PCs to enter the mayor's house. Having the sister leave the side gate open counts as "bypassing" or "shortcutting". Does climbing the wall with rope, or via a Levitate spell; or does having one PC sneak through a window then open the side gate for the others, count as bypassing or shortcutting? Or suppose a situation arises in the game where it would be handy for the PCs to have an audience with Her Ladyship. Having the cousin who is Her Ladyship's secretary write the meeting into her diary counts as "bypassing" or "shortcutting". Does sending a polite request for an audience count as that too? Does hanging around at an upmarket coffeehouse waiting for Her Ladyship to turn up and then striking up a conversation count as bypassing or shortcutting? The way that I'm making sense of all this is that we're talking about scenarios where the GM has contrived a situation, and the players are expected to puzzle it out in some fashion, and having a familial or social contact is too much like cutting the Gordian knot. But is that what's going on in others' minds too? What hasn't been discussed, but to me seems the bigger deal, is this: only the thief (let's say) can climb the wall or sneak through the window, but anyone can have a sister; only the bard (let's say) can write a polite note or hang out at upmarket coffeehouses, but anyone can have a cousin;, so we have some sort of possible infringement of niche/spotlight protection. Is that another thing that in others' minds though they haven't posted about it.? [/QUOTE]

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