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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8598885" data-attributes="member: 42582">I take it by this that you mean there are no Fate-style compels.Burning Wheel doesn't have compels. That doesn't stop Beliefs and Relationships being held to the fire. An example from actual play:Now Burning Wheel has social resolution mechanics, and so my GM was getting ready for a Duel of Wits; but I circumvented it instead by praying for a Minor Miracle, which resulted in the years falling away from Xanthippe and her agreeing to join Thurgon in the liberation of Auxol.My impression is that most D&amp;D players dislike social mechanics of the DoW sort, and so would play out the conversation between Thurgon and Xanthippe as free roleplay. But that doesn't change the fact that the player's Beliefs and Relationships - or, in 5e terminology, BIFTs - are being held to the fire.This is where you lose me.The reason I, as a player, risked the divine retribution of calling down a Minor Miracle wasn't because the GM was tempting me with gold or magic items or other power-ups. It's because I was (and am) invested in the fiction of my PC. That's why I built the PC, that's why I play him, that's why I play the game!If the only way to get a group of RPG players to care about friends or families or acquaintances is because their material interests - gold, magic items, etc - are at stake, you are already so far down the path of sacrificing value for expedience that I don't understand why you are even worrying about whether or not the PCs have connections to the fiction or are, instead, &quot;men with no name&quot;.Speaking in the language of solution rather than diagnosis: the way to get the players to play something other than &quot;murderhobos&quot; is not to persuade them that they can become more materially and mechanically powerful by being decent. It's to create a fiction that they are actually invested in and care about.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8598885, member: 42582"] I take it by this that you mean there are no Fate-style compels. Burning Wheel doesn't have compels. That doesn't stop Beliefs and Relationships being held to the fire. An example from actual play: Now Burning Wheel has social resolution mechanics, and so my GM was getting ready for a Duel of Wits; but I circumvented it instead by praying for a Minor Miracle, which resulted in the years falling away from Xanthippe and her agreeing to join Thurgon in the liberation of Auxol. My impression is that most D&D players dislike social mechanics of the DoW sort, and so would play out the conversation between Thurgon and Xanthippe as free roleplay. But that doesn't change the fact that the player's Beliefs and Relationships - or, in 5e terminology, BIFTs - are being held to the fire. This is where you lose me. The reason I, as a player, risked the divine retribution of calling down a Minor Miracle wasn't because the GM was tempting me with gold or magic items or other power-ups. It's because I was (and am) invested in the fiction of my PC. That's why I built the PC, that's why I play him, that's why I play the game! If the only way to get a group of RPG players to care about friends or families or acquaintances is because their material interests - gold, magic items, etc - are at stake, you are already so far down the path of sacrificing [i]value[/i] for [i]expedience[/i] that I don't understand why you are even worrying about whether or not the PCs have connections to the fiction or are, instead, "men with no name". Speaking in the language of solution rather than diagnosis: the way to get the players to play something other than "murderhobos" is not to persuade them that they can become more materially and mechanically powerful by being decent. It's to create a fiction that they are actually invested in and care about. [/QUOTE]

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