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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8607516" data-attributes="member: 22779">Hang on a tick.  I am very aware of the irony of me saying this, but, we really need to roll back the rhetoric a bit.  Yes, I am 100% guilty here.  I know.  But, the main problem, I think, is that we're mostly talking past each other and that's why people are feeling attacked.  It's not about attacking traditional play.  I think, from what I've read here, that everyone has played traditional style games and we've all probably enjoyed them.  I know I have.  The reason I advocate a more shared authority approach is because I honestly believe that it is an improvement on traditional play.  That doesn't mean that trad play is bad or wrong or anything like that.  It's not.  It absolutely works and it can be a lot of fun.Just because I think something might work better does not mean that trad play is somehow flawed.  It's very much in a similar vein to the recent thread on fudging when I pointed out that fudging was largely a DM thing in early play.  It was assumed at the table (typically) and it worked.  But, an improvement on DM fudging is moving a lot of that into the player's lap and giving the players lots of mechanics in which the players can choose when and how much they want to fudge the dice.  They took DM side fudging, gamified it and turned it into mechanics.And, for the most part, I'd say they were spectacularly successful.  Going from, say, 2e through to 5e, you can see the proliferation of player side fudging mechanics absolutely explode.  And, at least from the feedback I've seen, the players love it.  Fantastic.This is the same sort of thing.  There's nothing wrong with Trad play.  It works.  It can be a ton of fun.  But, it's not perfect.  It does disincentivize players engaging directly in the setting - I mean directly, not through their characters.  Which in turn CAN (note the modal there, it's really important, I'm not saying it's guaranteed, I'm saying that the possibility exists) lead to players who are passive consumers simply reacting to whatever the DM puts in front of them.  Which in turn CAN (again, not guaranteed) lead to shallow games where it's just the DM wheeling up the plot wagon week after week and the players shoveling down whatever the DM serves.</blockquote>

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