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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8608604" data-attributes="member: 22779">Ewww.  No thanks.I will try new mechanics from time to time, then revisit them and alter them and repeat that over and over again.I've played with DM's who refuse to change mistakes and it's very much not to my taste.  Mistakes happen.  Happen all the time.  So, no, the idea that I have to keep something because of some notion of "precedence" just isn't even remotely a consideration.  Good grief, you play like 15 year long campaigns.  I cannot even imagine that you'd keep a known mistake that long.  And yet, a majority of players most certainly do do this.  Funny how anecdotes work.  if you give people a chance, then not only will they work with you to build something better, they will actually thank you for the opportunity.Has it not occurred to anyone that there is a pretty strong correlation here between "We must be careful about the players because the players will always try to 'win'" and "The DM must retain strong authority over the game"?  That those of us who talk about tables with shared authority really don't have the experiences that you guys keep going on about?  In other words, the reason your players play this way is because you are teaching them that this is the best way to play.  If the DM will not allow me to do anything other than be 100% an advocate for the success of my character, then how can I be blamed for advocating for advantages for my character?  Look at everyone in this thread that talks about sharing some (not all, just some) authority between the players and the DM.  EVERY SINGLE ONE talks about how the players become more collaborative, less competitive and more engaged.  Note how everyone who talks about players power gaming or trying to eke out every single advantage are also coming down very strongly in favor of DM authority?  Do you really think that this is a coincidence?  True, correlation is not causation, but, there are times when you really have to ask yourself if the problems you are having are not of your own devising.</blockquote>

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