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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5236355" data-attributes="member: 51942">Overall, PC deaths in 4e are more common than in 3e for us.  Quite a bit more common, actually.  Partially, this may be due to initial inexperience, but it's still happening.  There's a few reasons for that:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some battles turn sour - at that point, escape is the only option.  However, that's harder to do in 4e.  3.5's dimension door and various escaping long-range teleports are much harder to do, and you need line of sight and can thus be followed more easily. Invisibility (esp enough to really escape) is harder to get and is usually not enough for non-stealthy characters.  Summon's and conjurations are rarer (a side-effect of 4e's simplification); thus providing fewer "minions" to distract foes.  Special-purpose magic items are often more expensive (higher level) and require daily magic item usages - which a PC often won't have after a hard battle such as those you'd want to escape from.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When I DM, I warn the players that they can expect the occasional unwinnable battle and should be prepared to scout ahead and/or inform themselves in other ways.  Scrying is a bit more limited, particularly tactical short-range stuff; it's also less attractive since it's usually a ritual with significant cost (if you do it every day) and a long casting time.  Stealth is riskier since escape is harder.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Because a few hits by a level-equivalent monster aren't threatening, to remain exciting, fights are often "challenging" and take many rounds and really tax PC (encounter) resources.  But if luck, tactics or a DM mistake turn the tide, then all PC are at the edge - as soon as one goes down, the rest is all the more likely to and a (near) TPK happens quickly.  So, the number of battles with deaths isn't that different in 4e, but when someone dies, a TPK is more likely in 4e than in 3e - for us anyhow.</li> </ul>As an aside:A mark is violated when an attack doesn't include the marker.  In your example, a hydra using multiple attacks would technically need to include the fighter in each attack or trigger the mark for those attacks in which it doesn't.  (IIRC this has been confirmed by CS several times).  A single attack would be a single melee, ranged, close or area attack: i.e. an attack with a single damage roll.  However, flavor-wise, some monsters' attacks might be a better fit for a close attack but are mechanically listed as several melee attacks (particularly in MM1), so it's not unreasonable to rule 0 this sometimes - but the hydra's pretty clear-cut; it can make several attacks on the same target; it can't necessarily attack all targets in reach - that sounds like quintessentially separate attacks, so the full penalties of being marked should be enforced on each attack that doesn't include the marker.  Obviously, the same goes for multi-attacking PC's. (yadda yadda DM's prerogative yadda yadda).</blockquote>

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