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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5241233" data-attributes="member: 2011">DM perogative.Stupid rules should be ignored.The problem with passive perception is that the PCs either always notice something, or never notice something (shy of taking an active check).That's a stupid rule.If something is hidden in my game, it's hidden for a reason. It's not hidden so that the super perceptive PC always notices it, or the less perceptive PC can never notice it because his bonus for Perception is 10 or more less than the super perceptive PC.The concept that "only the player that boosted perception out the ying yang" can notice anything is nonsense. Every PC should be able to notice the obvious stuff. Most PCs that search should sometimes be able to find the hidden stuff unless it is really hidden well.If a book is lost under the large opaque chair and it cannot be spotted while standing in the room, no person should be able to find it without bending down and looking under the chair, even if the DC to find it is lower than the passive perception of the super perceptive PC. He does not have x-ray vision, so it doesn't matter if the DC is 5. He doesn't see the book until he looks under the chair.Another example. I have a hidden safe. The best perception in the party is a +20 and the PC perception range in the party is +10 to +20. This is a hidden safe that I WANT the PCs to find. So, I make the DC to find it fairly low. I make it a 22.This is still a hidden safe. One has to look for it. If the DM just arbitrary uses the Passive Perception rule from the PHB without using his brain, then any PC in the group with a +12 or better spots it the moment they enter the room. To me, this is not good story telling. It's spoon feeding the players.Rather, after the encounter, the PCs split up and search the room and are likely, but not guaranteed, to find it. The story continues with two possible story arcs. The more likely "they find the safe" and the less likely "they don't find the safe".If the DM just makes it a set DC and the group assumes that the super perceptive PC always searches everywhere, then the DC of the safe has to be higher than the passive perception of the super perceptive PC, but lower than his passive perception + 21 in order for there to be a chance that it is found. And once the DM does that, if that super perceptive PC is incapacitated, then the rest of the party typically doesn't have a chance. Plus, the odds of finding the hidden safe is < 50%. There is no 80% chance to find the hidden safe.My approach does not assume that the super perceptive PC searches everywhere. I ask in my game, "Who is searching where?" when the players decide to search. We happen to have 3 high perception PCs in our current group out of 5, so they often find everything. But a few weeks back, one player rolled low and didn't find the gem hidden in the shoe of a dead foe. Oh well. I don't allow a different player to say "that player rolled low, so my PC comes over and searches for her".In WotC's attempt to make the game simpler, they actually put in some dorky rules that don't work with certain DM story telling styles. DMs should ignore dorky rules that don't work for them.</blockquote>

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