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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 9838118" data-attributes="member: 6716779">Youre aware 5E and 3E are odd ones out in regards to defenses scaling very poorly? Also kinda rushed last minute we have to do something in 5E playtest. Proficiency bonus should be applied to all saves or removed from spell DCs.  I use a lot of spellcasters in my campaigns. Baddies are often cultists.  PCs dont fear damage they fear disabling effects like paralyzed.  Unless tge damage is getting over 20d6. I hit them with 40d6 DC 23 meteor swarm at q4th level.  DCs ove 17 were common. CR 2s coikd be used as mooks so an low/east fight could be 10 cultists each with hold person.  RAW you can spam this type of stuff and over load Indomitable and counterspells.  I didnt abusive to tgat extent but often had primary caster baddie, 2 henchmen, 4 cr 2-3 with the rest being mundane mooks and guards.  If DM wanted to you can easily throw lots of this stuff PCs.   Are you gappy with DMs uring multiple low CR dpellcasters vs PCs? Higher CR ones are CR6-12. Mages, archnages, priests and performers gone to mind.  Cone of cold vs PCs level 4 its only CR 6..... Archmage. CR 12 (lvl 7ish) I'll swap out its level 9 spell for meteor swarm and its level 6 for a hold person lvl 6.</blockquote>