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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How important is leveling to the play experience (lvls 2-8)?
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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8505779" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>D&D is pretty much ingrained in the levelling experience. This system is quite rewarding but I will admit that in the evolution of D&D it is less and less so.</p><p>Up to 2nd edition, players would get powerful abilities but that power would be restrained through hit point gained after a certain point (usually, but not always, 9th level). This was promoting powerful offensive characters but still vulnerable to a streak of bad play, luck and decision. The heroic portion of the game was at its best in 1ed where a single high level character of any class could take on a powerful dragon and win. It became almost impossible for a fighter to do it in 2nd edition but it was possible for a caster. </p><p></p><p>3ed became the edition where levelling was both at its best and its worst. The capacity of a high level casters led to the CODZILLA and left the purely martial characters in the dust. Yet, levelling brought a lot of custumizability that made martial characters happy.</p><p></p><p>4ed followed the same pattern as third but it failed in making people happy with it. It was not a bad edition levelling wise but the pattern was too similar from one class to the other.</p><p></p><p>5ed level is great, but at high level, the gain in HP becomes a hindrance where monsters barely strike harder and must be literally bloated with HP to compete with players (and they fail at that unless some tweaking of the rules are made) and thus, most campaigns will end around level 14 which is the point where combat becomes a chore instead of a fun thing. Yet, levelling still brings a lot of joy when it happens.</p><p></p><p>The amount of skills/powers/attributes gained during levelling in D&D is hard to reproduce in a skill increasing system such as Vampire the Masquerade (or other similar systems). The gains that a typical character gains in D&D is quite substantial compared to many other RPGs. In other RPGs you get better at something in which you spend your "xp or whatever" while in D&D you get better at every single choice you made at character's creation! The first approach promotes stronger character at the beginning but slower advancement. The second promotes weaker characters at creation, but a greater power curve as you level.</p><p></p><p>If anything can be an indicator of what is preferred by the majority of players, just check which RPG, MMORPG, and computer RPG are the most popular...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 8505779, member: 6855114"] D&D is pretty much ingrained in the levelling experience. This system is quite rewarding but I will admit that in the evolution of D&D it is less and less so. Up to 2nd edition, players would get powerful abilities but that power would be restrained through hit point gained after a certain point (usually, but not always, 9th level). This was promoting powerful offensive characters but still vulnerable to a streak of bad play, luck and decision. The heroic portion of the game was at its best in 1ed where a single high level character of any class could take on a powerful dragon and win. It became almost impossible for a fighter to do it in 2nd edition but it was possible for a caster. 3ed became the edition where levelling was both at its best and its worst. The capacity of a high level casters led to the CODZILLA and left the purely martial characters in the dust. Yet, levelling brought a lot of custumizability that made martial characters happy. 4ed followed the same pattern as third but it failed in making people happy with it. It was not a bad edition levelling wise but the pattern was too similar from one class to the other. 5ed level is great, but at high level, the gain in HP becomes a hindrance where monsters barely strike harder and must be literally bloated with HP to compete with players (and they fail at that unless some tweaking of the rules are made) and thus, most campaigns will end around level 14 which is the point where combat becomes a chore instead of a fun thing. Yet, levelling still brings a lot of joy when it happens. The amount of skills/powers/attributes gained during levelling in D&D is hard to reproduce in a skill increasing system such as Vampire the Masquerade (or other similar systems). The gains that a typical character gains in D&D is quite substantial compared to many other RPGs. In other RPGs you get better at something in which you spend your "xp or whatever" while in D&D you get better at every single choice you made at character's creation! The first approach promotes stronger character at the beginning but slower advancement. The second promotes weaker characters at creation, but a greater power curve as you level. If anything can be an indicator of what is preferred by the majority of players, just check which RPG, MMORPG, and computer RPG are the most popular... [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
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How important is leveling to the play experience (lvls 2-8)?
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