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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jbear" data-source="post: 4769696" data-attributes="member: 75065">I'm not sure why the thread has derailed into 'Is math's fun' (around page 8 where I got very bored and stopped reading). To address the OP's question, to which game system is magic more important; I think magic is more important to 3rd ed. In 4th ed it's very easy to make a well balanced and dangerous party with a healer, all from martial classes. Does that necessarily imply that 4ed magic cant be as versatile and as fun, or as awesome as 3ed? I don't think it has to be. My imagination broadened greatly after reading how LostSoul was using combat powers in out of combat situations, even during skill challenges with skill checks. I think sometimes we put our own limitations on things.  It's definitely not the world-changing reality bending magic that you might find in a Wish, but it can still be used creatively and awesomely if the DM doesn't limit the play by: 'What you are trying is not covered in the rules with that power, so you can't do it.' I would love to have some concrete guidelines to achieve LostSouls awesome style of DMing 4e. I try my best to allow my players to think outside the box with their resources. I want everyone to be able to do awesome things, be they the man in the pointy hat or the hulking brute standing in front of him. I have very new players and achieving that is not always easy. I think the OP's question and complaint is an interesting and valid one. It's a shame it turned into an argument over maths. I think it's a question that should be explored and indeed WotC should address with someone like LostSoul doing an article and expand his DM style into concrete guidelines for superior DMing, focusing on the use of powers in non-combat situations.</blockquote>

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