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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4772486" data-attributes="member: 48965">You are more than likely right as I am going by memory right now. &nbsp;&nbsp;So...because everything is an exception, there is no baseline for powers to be categorized as far as magic vs. mundane... as they will always be exceptions. This makes it fundamentally impossible to draw any distinction between magic, mundane and anything else when it comes to PC's in D&amp;D 4e. Essentially magic was the force that allowed one to create exceptions to the game rules as well as the rules of the fantasy world one was playing in... thus if all powers now do this, they have in fact all become magic. See IMO, a martial master would be someone who works within the reality or rules of the game to achieve greatness, while a magician or magic-user is one who breaks said rules to achieve greatness. Sort of similar to the followers of Law and Chaos in many of Moorcock's stories. Now however everyone is a manipulator and breaker of reality and game rules...mages&nbsp;&nbsp;First I didn't use the word only in any of my posts... however if there is no difference between regeneration, temporary hit points, using a second wind, etc. why do all of these different mechaics exist? If they all model the same thing then I would have to say it is both bad and wasted design to create fifty million ways to represent what is fundamentally the exact same thing. I do not believe the designers of D&amp;D 4e are wasteful or bad at their job, thus I must believe these mechanics actually represent fundamentally different things as opposed to the same thing with a million different names. &nbsp;A second point is that there is still an amount of hit points that represent physical damage... not all but some. regeneration allows one to heal it in seconds as opposed to minutes or days.&nbsp;&nbsp;I'm sorry but having Wolverine's mutant healing factor (even for 5 minutes) is magical IMO. We can of course agree to disagree.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 4772486, member: 48965"] You are more than likely right as I am going by memory right now. So...because everything is an exception, there is no baseline for powers to be categorized as far as magic vs. mundane... as they will always be exceptions. This makes it fundamentally impossible to draw any distinction between magic, mundane and anything else when it comes to PC's in D&D 4e. Essentially magic was the force that allowed one to create exceptions to the game rules as well as the rules of the fantasy world one was playing in... thus if all powers now do this, they have in fact all become magic. See IMO, a martial master would be someone who works within the reality or rules of the game to achieve greatness, while a magician or magic-user is one who breaks said rules to achieve greatness. Sort of similar to the followers of Law and Chaos in many of Moorcock's stories. Now however everyone is a manipulator and breaker of reality and game rules...mages First I didn't use the word only in any of my posts... however if there is no difference between regeneration, temporary hit points, using a second wind, etc. why do all of these different mechaics exist? If they all model the same thing then I would have to say it is both bad and wasted design to create fifty million ways to represent what is fundamentally the exact same thing. I do not believe the designers of D&D 4e are wasteful or bad at their job, thus I must believe these mechanics actually represent fundamentally different things as opposed to the same thing with a million different names. A second point is that there is still an amount of hit points that represent physical damage... not all but some. regeneration allows one to heal it in seconds as opposed to minutes or days. I'm sorry but having Wolverine's mutant healing factor (even for 5 minutes) is magical IMO. We can of course agree to disagree. [/QUOTE]

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