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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4772583" data-attributes="member: 48965">Exactly...  No, you don't. There are diceless games like Everway, Nobilis and Amber where chance, in the traditional sense, isn't a part of gameplay...though I do agree at the least a minimum of mechanics is necessary.  So different names... different features, etc. The problem is that those should mean something in the context of the game. If they are interchangeable then they don't. I also notice you have a continuing theme in your posts where you try to subtly (or not so subtly as the case may be) insinuate that those with a deficient group, imagination, etc. are the ones who don't like the way 4e was designed... I disagree with this of course because gameplay (as in the actual mechanics of a game) can be enjoyable or not to a particular person and or group... no matter how great my imagination or group is I am not going to enjoy a game of Monopoly...period.  I guess this is a long winded way of saying dude, quit trying to insinuate not liking the design of 4e is really because people don't have a "good" group or a "good" imagination. It's likely to turn people off of discussing anything with you.  The Barbarian's Rage was based upon something a mundane man (notably a berserker) was capable of doing, as well as being based upon the power of the character's physical body (Con) and limited only to affecting him since he is trained to rage.  Creating a spell of this effect is magical because it is no longer based on the training (as a Barbarian) or physical attributes of the man but on the strength of the spell... and also because it allows you to instill this essence in another thus carrying this affect beyond oneself and onto others (and if it doesn't why would a wizard ever cast this spell on himself??).  The thing is there has always been a baseline that was pretty well defined from BECMI (didn't play anything ealier than this) up to 3.5 between magic and martial abilities. I never mistook a Fighter's abilities in BECMI for anything remotely magical as defined by the assumptions of the game. Core 1e, 2e and 3e were the same for me ... 4e is a different story. All IMO of course.  NOTE: which is not to say I never diverged from the baseline once I was comfortable with the game, but it's good to have a baseline before you start diverging or else you can end up with an incomprehensible mish mash. Sort of how you start with addition and subtraction as opposed to algebra.</blockquote>

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