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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 4773335" data-attributes="member: 53980">I don't think you necessarily give people enough credit.  IMO, there is at least a significant portion of people here who see the fundamentals of 4E clearly and like it (though I don't deny that there are also those who see clearly and hate it).For example, I'm currently playing around with some gestalt rules for 4E that I found in the House Rules section of these forums and modified a bit.  One of my players wanted to create a PC based on the character Hunk (from the Resident Evil series).  Basically, an elite, modern (zombie-killing) commando.It took the player a little while to get out of the old mindset (he was unhappy for a while that Ranger didn't offer him the variety he was looking for), but we eventually settled upon a gestalt of Druid and Warlock.  Reflavoring Wild Shape, he assumes a martial arts stance so that he can riot kick zombies (and anything else that gets too close) using Savage Rend.  His Eldritch Blast became a spray of bullets from his machine gun (his implements were reflavored as special ammo clips that he uses for his gun).  Faerie Fire became a mustard gas grenade, Obscuring Mist became a smoke bomb, Fiery Bolt became a napalm canister that he tosses at enemies and shoots, etc.  If he had wanted to have fighting techniques specialized for killing undead, I would have recommended a divine class instead of Warlock, though he still would have used technology instead of magic (sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic).I can understand that the above may not be everyone's cup of tea (for varying reasons) but for us it works beautifully.  I honestly don't think we're unconsciously ignoring anything (If you think we are, could you please elaborate as to what you think that is?).  We recognize that there's a certain degree of magic/mundane transparency in the system but for us it is a strength, not a weakness.  Falkland (the commando PC) is a martial character because he uses grenades and a gun (rather than Primal/Arcane as his classes would indicate) which are not inherently magical in nature.  The player constantly remarks to me how awesome he thinks his character is and how Falkland is exactly what he envisioned.If this is ignorance, then I suppose I was wrong and ignorance really is bliss!</blockquote>

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