Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="ExploderWizard" data-source="post: 4773663" data-attributes="member: 66434">Leaving game mechanics/ effects out of this for a moment lets look at the differences between magic/ non-magic from a flavor/tone view. The actual effect it has in the game will be the same so what are the real differences? The differences are the expectations of the modeled reality of the fantasy world. The attack roll vs defense is a game construct that has no meaning to the setting. The important part is what the fantasy characters see happening and how it relates to what is known about the realities of thier world.  For example if this attack is viewed as mundane in both cases, what causes this to be so? When Joe NPC watches the wizard shout and gesture, then sees the goblin fly backwards what qualities of the world cause Joe accept this as a mundane act? When Joe NPC watches the fighter swing his staff mightily striking the goblin in chest, then sees the goblin fly backwards what qualities of the world cause Joe accept this as a mundane act?  Without a quantifiable difference in what is viewed as mundane vs magical in a given world there can be no meaningful difference. Without a frame of reference the is no difference between mundane and magical.   Assuming that there is an actual divide between mundane and magical, it would depend upon how one defines the Arcana skill. If the skill does not require magical talent to use then a fighter should be able to try. Being untrained depends on the skill being used. GURPS handles this very well with defaults. A character can TRY most anything but the chances of success are not usually good. There are some skills that require some training to even attempt.     Cases where the rules don't say anything can be great or awful depending on who you ask. In my opinion the more complex and structured the rules are the more ridiculous "legal" loopholes there are to abuse. This leads to endless patching and fixing that can lead to yet more "broken" rules, ect. A set of simple rules along with a good dose of guidelines to produce sensible rulings is pure heaven. There are terrible DMs out there that have led to outcry of "mother may I" games being no fun. I say that if you don't trust the DM to make sensible rulings then perhaps gaming with this person isn't worth the effort. Complex rules won't stop jerks from being jerks. If large tight ruleset is required to keep anyone at the table "in line" on either side of the screen then fun has already been assassinated and it isn't going to help.</blockquote>

Verification